Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)
Bergen Record ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | TOM TRONCONE

Posted on 01/16/2005 5:22:26 AM PST by dead

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: aliens; anothermissedstory; antichrist; armanious; comingtoyourhomenext; coptic; dhimmi; extremism; foxnewsasleepagain; gihad; holywar; islam; islamofascism; jerseycity; jihadinamerica; jihadtsunami; koran; koranimals; mediamissliketsunami; muslims; nicejobmedia; nukemecca; quran; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; terrorism; trop; war; waronterror; whereiscair; whereiscnn; whereisfnc; whereismsnbc; whilethemediasleeps
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 721-735 next last
To: wardaddy

The devil is about his business.


281 posted on 01/16/2005 9:43:29 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 279 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
What's going on in America?


282 posted on 01/16/2005 9:44:16 AM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 279 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy; Destro

They rejoiced on 9/11 in Patterson NJ. I have a friend who lives near there. This is not new.


283 posted on 01/16/2005 9:47:38 AM PST by e5man_r_u? (A Man's mission: Build, Protect, Provide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 279 | View Replies]

To: montag813; dead


284 posted on 01/16/2005 9:49:22 AM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 275 | View Replies]

To: prairiebreeze
The internet chat room angle, eh? How would the jihadi's get the Armanious family's name and address? Unless he was foolish enough to give it out that is.

...Are you really that naive??

285 posted on 01/16/2005 9:49:37 AM PST by paulat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Dat Mon
Not all Muslims are terrorists

Not all Jews attend synagougue on Rosh Hashannah either.

ML/NJ

286 posted on 01/16/2005 9:53:17 AM PST by ml/nj
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 280 | View Replies]

To: cyborg

yep....

...snowing lightly and about 28 here...how are ya'll?

my girls said cosmopolitan Orange County was quite chilly..lol


287 posted on 01/16/2005 9:58:16 AM PST by wardaddy (Quisiera ser un pez para tocar mi nariz en tu pecera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 281 | View Replies]

To: dead
He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit

Let's see, these people get into an internet argument with some Islamic a-holes, and suddenly turn up with their throats slit.

I am rapidly concluding that Islam is a gutter religion of human sewer-rats.

If you are Islamic, even a "peaceful" one, you are a mortal enemy of mine.

288 posted on 01/16/2005 9:58:45 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SheLion

saved


289 posted on 01/16/2005 9:58:50 AM PST by wardaddy (Quisiera ser un pez para tocar mi nariz en tu pecera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 282 | View Replies]

To: e5man_r_u?

why are they here?

have lost all common sense?


290 posted on 01/16/2005 9:59:22 AM PST by wardaddy (Quisiera ser un pez para tocar mi nariz en tu pecera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 283 | View Replies]

To: dead
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam

The only problem is that they don't consider non-Islamics to be humans.

291 posted on 01/16/2005 10:00:03 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy

bttt


292 posted on 01/16/2005 10:00:22 AM PST by weenie (Islam is as "...dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog." -- Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 290 | View Replies]

To: dead

Fatwa Question Details
Name Muslim - Title
Selling Food to the US Troops Fighting in Iraq
Question
Dear Sheikh, As-Salamu `alaykum. I am an employee in one of the hotels that serve food to the American troops. Is it lawful to sell food to the Americans? In other words, would I go on in my work or leave it? May Allah reward you.
Date
31/Mar/2003
Mufti
Group of Muftis
Answer
Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, we would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His Sake.

First of all, it is to be stated that the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims is to be based on kindness and good treatment. But if the non-Muslims fight against Muslims anywhere, it is incumbent upon Muslims not to help them in any way or provide them with food. He who does so is sinful.

In response to the question you posed, Dr. Yusuf Qasim, Professor of Islamic Shari’ah at the Faculty of Law, Cairo University, states:
"It is a general ruling that it is forbidden to provide the enemy with anything, even food, as this is a form of assisting the enemy, which is forbidden. There are many sources of religious evidence for this. It is sufficient in this regard to cite Allah’s saying: "Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever makes friends of them (All) such are wrong doers." (Al-Mumtahanah: 8-9)
According to the first verse, Allah makes it lawful that we treat non-Muslims kindly and justly as long as they are at peace with Muslims. However, when they are at war with Muslims, attacking Muslim lands and homes, it is forbidden for any Muslim to support them in any way. The second verse applies to what our enemies do now. Hence, I have no alternative but to say to the questioner that it is completely forbidden to help the Americans at any rate.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) launched an economic war against the polytheists of Makkah, and during the Battle of Badr he stopped up all the wells in the place so that the enemy would have nothing to drink. This example shows us that preventing provisions from reaching the enemy is lawful; and he who provides them with anything would be sinful.
It has become definitely clear that the US has launched war against Iraq with the purpose of dominating the whole region and its resources. It is also obvious that this war is not legitimate; and hence, it is a sin to help the Americans in any way during that war.
As for selling to and buying from the Americans, generally, this is lawful in itself; but in the current circumstances, it must be prevented. This is because it is a kind of providing the enemy with help; and hence, I say that this is forbidden.
As for one who works in a restaurant, company, or a hotel that serves food to the aggressors and he has no option because he needs that work and cannot find another job, he is like the person who does something under force. So, he can only continue his work provided that he does his best to find another job, and at the same time keeps drawing the attention of the owner of the place he works in to the unlawfulness of providing the enemy with such services. In this case, the sin will be upon the owner if he does not respond.
Concerning the international agreements (held between some Arab countries and the US) to the effect that the former provide the American troops with food and assistance, laws give the parties to such agreements the right to cancel them if said agreements would lead to helping these troops commit aggression. Such countries’ continuing to abide by the terms of these agreements is a grave sin that Allah will punish them for."
Moreover, Dr. Anwar Dabbour, Professor of Shari`ah, Faculty of Law at Cairo University, adds:
"It is a general ruling that anything that may help the American troops remain in Muslim territories is forbidden. This includes providing them with food, medicine, and all other logistic needs. Whoever provides them with any of these needs is committing a sin. Such troops are there to fight against the Muslims, destroy their lands, and annihilate them. How would a Muslim provide them with help after all this? As for the one who works in a restaurant or hotel that provides them services, he is committing a sin and should give up that work and search for another job.
Regarding the international agreements (that require some Arab states to help the American troops), they are no longer binding upon such Arab states, for the presence of such troops has become illegitimate and turned into an aggressive attack against the Muslims. Hence, these Arab states can declare cancellation of these agreements."
Finally, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
"There is no doubt that Muslims are required to defend their religion and countries with all possible means of jihad, whether by fighting against the enemy with arms, expressing hatred and opposition to them by tongue or heart, or by boycotting them. This is to say, Muslims should do whatever they can in order to weaken their enemy. It is not lawful for any Muslim at any rate to support or protect the enemies of his religion or country, be those enemies Jews, pagans, et cetera.
Muslims must not be loyal to disbelievers, as the righteous do not show loyalty to the evil-doers; doing so would be a sign of one’s weak faith, or, Allah forbid it, a sign of apostasy. If a Muslim cannot fight against the enemies in the battlefield, the least he can do is to boycott them and not to benefit them economically, for every penny the enemies profit from us helps them have weapons to use in fighting against the Muslims. That is why the Jews used to collect donations in America and European countries saying, “Pay a penny to kill an Arab.” Hence, when a Muslim helps in increasing the profits of the polytheists or disbelievers in any way, he would be helping them kill other Muslims, which is a grave sin. Allah says: "Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom"(An-Nisa': 93); and "…whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind…" (Al-Ma'idah: 32)
Hence, it is incumbent upon Muslims not to help the enemies of Islam at any rate. Whatever good will those enemies may show, they are liars. Allah says: "He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them” (Al-Ma'idah :51); "Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe, (to be) the Jews and the idolaters…"(Al-Ma'dah :82); and "…the wrong doers, some of them are friends of others…" (Al-Jathiyah: 19)
We should take into account what these verses tell us. Muslims should express their loyalty to their nation and religion; this is the least thing they can do. Besides, fighting is not only by using arms against the enemies; it may also be by boycotting them. [This is for Muslims outside the offending countries.] For example, the boycott the polytheists of Makkah imposed on the Prophet and his clan was a kind of economic war. They boycotted the Prophet’s whole clan, as well as the Muslims who believed in him. They made a covenant to the effect that it was forbidden for anyone of them to hold any contact with that clan, sell to them, buy from them, or even enter into marriage relations with them.
Hence, it is necessary to launch an economic war against the enemies of Islam; Muslims are to boycott them; and whoever does not do so would betray Allah, His Messenger, and all Muslims."

Allah Almighty knows best.


293 posted on 01/16/2005 10:00:35 AM PST by OKIEDOC (LL THE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alouette; yonif; All

Let me get this straight this family throats were cut they urge debate with Muslums

That tell me alot they can't stand the truth that Islam is War religion not religion of peace


294 posted on 01/16/2005 10:02:57 AM PST by SevenofNine ("Not everybody , in it, for truth, justice, and the American way,"=Det Lennie Briscoe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: tkathy
If Christians had slit the throats of Muslims

If the Muslims keep it up, there might be.

295 posted on 01/16/2005 10:03:05 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy

I'm trying to figure out if it's winter or fall *lol* It was a bit chilly in the city last night. My sister and I went to see the Alexander Hamilton exhibit. It was pretty good.


296 posted on 01/16/2005 10:03:36 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 287 | View Replies]

To: ml/nj
"Not all Jews attend synagougue on Rosh Hashannah either."

The question is why they don't attend...are they lazy...or don't think it is important?

This is the gist of my question...why is it that many Muslims do not actively participate in terrorism themselves, yet the vast majority also do not speak out against those who do?
297 posted on 01/16/2005 10:04:28 AM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 286 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
They have made such a mess of the Mid-East that they cannot find work there. They come here for jobs. Once here, they want to make it more like home, intolerance and all.

I realize that not all moslems are like this, but the minority that are must be confronted.
298 posted on 01/16/2005 10:04:29 AM PST by e5man_r_u? (A Man's mission: Build, Protect, Provide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 290 | View Replies]

To: paulat
...Are you really that naive??

But how do you think this family was tracked through a chat room (if indeed that was what happened)? Are you saying the sight was hacked?

299 posted on 01/16/2005 10:04:49 AM PST by weenie (Islam is as "...dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog." -- Churchill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 285 | View Replies]

To: OKIEDOC
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur'an should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." --Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations), San Ramon Valley Herald, July 1998

They'll have to kill me first.

Then they can step between the empty ammunition cannisters, take the rifle with the overheated barrel out of my hands, and convert my corpse.

300 posted on 01/16/2005 10:04:49 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 250 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 721-735 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson