Perfect John Adams quote showing that Religion has a place in government (Vanity)

[AVNevis]

I was doing reasearch this evening for a debate tournament I am participating in a couple of weeks when I came upon this quote:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams

It seems to me this just nails the aclu argument about separation of church and state. Here we have a founding father stating that the constitution does not work if the people are not moral and religious. It seems to me we should be using this quote much more often in debates with liberals.

[Brian328i]

Of course the liberals will claim it was fabricated. They can't take the fact that moral men of religion founded the country.

[Diogenesis]

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
-John Adams

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith,
but to become dominant. The Qur'an should be the highest authority in America,
and Islam the only accepted religion on earth"
--Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations), San Ramon Valley Herald, July 1998

[Torie]

Well there are some civil states with a democratic tradition that are largely not religious now. So Adams was wrong. Granted, the non religious are living off the capital of religious insights. I certainly do, and I am not religious at all.

[Brian328i]

Sickening huh?

[AVNevis]

Did that CAIR guy really say that? If so that is near proof of that Islam really not a peaceful religion. I'll have to look into that quote after I finish preparing for this debate.

[Paperdoll]

May the dear Lord help us all.

[Torie]

Omar apparently has a cult mentality, and cults are inimical to a pluralistic civil society.

[AVNevis]

No, he wasn't wrong. The great majority of Americians and even the more secular countries that copied our constitution still must have some morals for it to be able to work. And more importantly this quote shows Adams believe religion had a place in government, invalidating the Michal Newdows of the world.

[azhenfud]

When a government fails to represent the majority for fear of lawsuits from minorities and can't represent minorities for fear of voters, it ceases to be a government capable of representing anyone.

[Torie]

our constitution still must have some morals for it to be able to work.

Of course. This may shock you, but many non-religious secular types have morals, and make a priori leaps of faith about certain moral precepts (which cannot be validated on rational self interested prudence alone), even if they don't realize it. I happen to realize it, and admit it.

[swilhelm73]

Well there are some civil states with a democratic tradition that are largely not religious now. So Adams was wrong. Granted, the non religious are living off the capital of religious insights. I certainly do, and I am not religious at all.

Well, looking at a nation like Belgium - which just banned one of its largest parties - it looks like that capital will only last so long...

[AVNevis]

that would make a great quote in itself. Send it to President Bush and get him to say it some sheeple might pay attention.

[Dalite]

In your research, look up the Treaty of Tripoli, article 11: As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Be prepared (if your opponent is prepared) to defend the "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" being taken out of context.

Also, try to understand that our founding fathers believed in deism, and may not have necessarily considered themselves to be Christian. They believed in a higher power called God, and in Natural Law, but were probably not as encumbered by denomination obsession as we are today.

[Torie]

That's interesting. What are the details about that? What major party was banned and why, and on what grounds?

By the way, Belgiums are one of the unhappiest nations on earth, per polls. Maybe it is the tension between the Flemish and the Walloons, I don't know. However, secular Danes are rated the happiest folks on earth.

[phoenix0468]

Brian328i wrote:
Of course the liberals will claim it was fabricated. They can't take the fact that moral men of religion founded the country.

Ok Brian, so you are saying you have to be religious to have morals? I don't think so. And I don't think religion has any part in our government except as a moral foundation for our leaders in making improtant decisions that may affect the rest of the world. As far as any one religion being recognized by our government, well that's akin to taking away my .45 acp ruger, and you know what'll happen if anyone tries that.

[Noachian]

It seems to me we should be using this quote much more often in debates with liberals.

You're right, but what good would it do?

Liberals pick the quotes that suit their purpose, and reject any others. That's what they did with Jefferson's quote about the "wall of separation" to the Danbury pastors.

[AVNevis]

Thanks, but that's not actually the topic. The topic is whether individual claims of privacy come before the greater societal good. I was looking up Adams to hopefully find a quote on that topic and stumbled on this.

[Torie]

Putting aside Jefferson and Franklin, the balance of the key founding fathers were indeed professed Christians, and held Christ in high esteem, although they certainly had a relaxed view about it (no fundamentalists they), and were not afraid to probe and question. In short, they were intellectuals and/or practical men of affairs.

[F16Fighter]

Have John Adams' remains been dug up and sued by the ACLU yet?