[SierraWasp]

Another Schwarzenegger Farce!!!

[EagleUSA]

More subterfuge. They have completely ignored that fact that hydrogen is ALSO AN ALTERNATIVE TO GASOLINE which would help provide for the added competition and needed supply to meet the demands of a healthy economy.

It is true that cars, that are "smogged" up in California are burning gasoline very cleanly now. But the enviro-whackos cannot say that, since they would be out of a job when it comes to inventing more dirty air....

[SierraWasp]

The Great "Hydrogen Highway" Hold-up!!!

You can't do this economically without nuke power and the EnvironMental Communutty has driven the costs of that out of this world, except in France!!!

Funny how the size of CA's economy is compared to France... kinda makes one wonder...

[SouthTexas]

As with many of the alternative fuels, too many "other" issues are not factored in. Things like in the electric cars, the power generation and the battery disposal issues are ignored.

[rellimpank]

--yeah--this one could make the stem cell farce look like small change--

[traviskicks]

But hydrogen is still an emerging science with rapid advances, and it is expected to be cheaper and more efficient in the future, said Michele St. Martin, spokeswoman for the California Department of Environmental Protection.
---

umm... Aren't gasoline engines becoming more and more fuel efficent too. Remember what pollution actually is - wasted energy.

[traviskicks]

V. John White, an adviser to the Sierra Club on clean-air issues, said he is skeptical of findings by the Reason Foundation because of the group's ideological bias.
---

Attacking character instead of their arguments AGAIN!

[sefarkas]

Hydrogen will do what nuclear power has already done -- displace oil as an energy source; saving it for petrochemical feedstock. Replacing gasoline will happen when the consumers are faced with high enough prices for gasoline that make other fuels viable options. Someone has to break ground to make hydrogen a viable alternative. If it is too expensive, don't buy it.

[matchwood]

I wonder what this will do to General Motors' plan to have a competitively priced fuel cell car on the highways by 2010?

[FredZarguna]

In discussions with my environmentalist friends and relatives, many of them react to the news that hydrogen isn't really a fuel--simply an energy storage medium, like a battery--with shocked disbelief. This reflects the poor quality of science education in government schools and the unblinking credulity of people determined to believe that "big oil" is the only reason we consume fossil fuels. Unless environmentalists are willing to start burning uranium, hydrogen is going to be produced by natural gas on a small scale, and later, by coal.

[karenbarinka]

Kaleefornyuns sure do have lots of money to burn.

Meanwhile, innocent unborn face murder for medical research...

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Oh and I thought the hydrogen thing was to get off the oil teat. Screw the environment, if I can't drive around in a Hindenburg then I want a friggin nuclear reactor under the hood.

[Carry_Okie]

V. John White, an adviser to the Sierra Club on clean-air issues, said he is skeptical of findings by the Reason Foundation because of the group's ideological bias.

???

HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW, HAW!!!

[nuke_road_warrior]

The fundamental problem is that hydrogen isn't an "alternative fuel." It's an energy distribution an storage system. Hydrogen will always cost more energy to produce than you recover by "burning" it in either an internal combustion engine or in a fuel cell (The Second Law of Thermodynamics always wins). At present, and for the foreseeable future, the total cost of infrastructure and production for a "hydrogen highway" will be more than all but the most dedicated enviros will be willing or able to afford.

[traviskicks]

Here is their report. I browsed through it. Interesting.
http://www.rppi.org/ps322.pdf

[Ptarmigan]

I read that there are trillions of tiny wormholes amongst us. If someone can find a way the exploit the energy, a small amount is enough to boil the ocean's water. Someone should develop quantum energy. It would end pollution problems and would be very potent.

[Timm]

Where is this Reason report? Is it online? I didn't see it on their site. Link, anyone? Thanks.

[SierraWasp]

"The study instead advocates more conservation, lowering freeway speed limits and making gasoline-powered cars smaller."

Hey Waspman! This is ignorant, too!! We don't need them Jimmy Carter speed limits back... If we conserve, they'll just slap us with a "per mile" tax... And switchin to Yugo's will just get our loved ones KILLED!!!

Who do they think they're kiddin??? Looks like themselves, to me!!!

[Timm]

CO2 emissions are a silly reason to build a massive and expensive hydrogen infrastructure.

In the longer term, something other than gasoline will have to provide transportation energy. Natural gas can substitute for gasoline better than exotic fuels like hydrogen, but natural gas supplies won't last a lot longer than oil supplies, either.

Eventually, better chemical battery technology will have to appear for electric cars, or, perhaps, hydrogen fuel might be used to power cars. Or, it could be that people of the future will have to make do with less good vehicles than the ones we've got.

[newzjunkey]

I've ridden (hours) in hydrogen-powered vehicles including those from Daimler-Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Volkswagon, Honda, GM and Hyundai. I've spoken with some of the engineers.

These vehicles are not all the same technology. They're not all on the same level of maturity either. GM, actually, was one of the best, with great power. Toyota, imho, had the edge with its retrofitted 4Runner. Hyundai retrofitted a Santa Fe. These aren't crap-boxes like GM's electric failure the EV-1. These are production SUVs but with a different powerplant.

With tens of millions of motor vehicles clogging the roads, California *MUST* think differently and I believe Arnold, who supports hydrogen as does President Bush, is doing the right thing. It's the *hot* technology among car companies' R&D and "big oil" companies as well. The West Sacramento hydrogen station is owned by BP, ChevronTexaco, Exxonmobil, Shell Hydrogen, Air Products and Praxair.

I thought we were FOR that kind of pro-business, pro-market, pro-innovation solution? The hydrogen can be sourced from fossil fuels like petroleum and natural gas but there are other possibilities including solar, wind or water power. There's also coal and biomass. This is a great potential: distribution of the source of hydrogen across a wide variety of source technologies. And we can do this *at home* and not have to be beholden to OPEC and other Mid-East interests for an eternity. This technology potentially underscores our sovereignty.

The Cities of Los Angeles & San Francisco actually have hydrogen powered vehicles (Hondas) in their fleet TODAY. Toyota & Honda have hydrogen R&D facilities located in Torrance and partnerships with UC Davis and UC Irvine.

There's no secret that there are really two sticking points: the battery technology (also an issue for electric and gas/electric hybrids) still can use work and manufacturing hydrogen for use as fuel can continue pollution problems. BUT there are many ways to extract the hydrogen. Check Shell Hydrogen's website here. Look at ChevronTexaco's here

Read about the California Fuel Cell Partnership. This is Arnold (and Bush), along with "Big Oil" and "Big Auto" thinking AHEAD for California, for Californians and for America in general along with Japan, German, Canada and other nations, rather than being stuck in the oil-warfare laden past. We should push AHEAD and support the "Hydrogen Economy" efforts by private business, academics and incentives from government.

[timestax]

What happens when one of these hydrogen cars wraps around a telephone pole, or two or three at once are involved in a smashup. What happens to all that hydrogen.Does it explode? Does it escape upward to"create" nebulous Ozone holes???