Bush Reforms Immigration

Minnisota Daily ^ | 11/19/04

[Independentamerican]

Last week, President George W. Bush finally signaled his intention to push for the immigration reform plan he unveiled nearly one year ago. That’s good news for a proposal that offers a creative solution to a long-standing problem. The plan, designed to grant temporary legal status to millions of undocumented aliens working in the United States, met a chilly reception when it was announced in January. Bush did little to promote it during the presidential election.

( SNIP )

The measure is certain to face intense opposition. Republican members of Congress have argued Bush’s temporary worker program rewards — and therefore encourages — illegal immigration. Members of both parties see immigration as a security threat in the post-Sept. 11, 2001, world. Some unions believe immigrants will undercut U.S. workers.

-SNIP-

Concern that immigrant workers compete with U.S. workers for scarce jobs is equally mistaken. Most immigrant laborers fill positions that U.S. workers pass over — retail and service-sector jobs that pay low wages and require little skill.

-SNIP-

The Bush proposal takes a more enlightened approach. It sees immigration as a net gain for the economy and ties temporary legal status to gainful employment. It wisely stops short of amnesty by requiring immigrant workers to eventually return home

[NJ_gent]

"No real terror threat ?"

If having wide-open borders is not a threat, then the entire War on Terrorism is a sham, and September 11th, 2001 was a peaceful day of rest and relaxation. It also means that there's something severely wrong with my eyes, because when I visited the site of the World Trade Center last, all I saw were gaping holes in the ground, piles of debris, and construction crews working hard.

[SuziQ]

Get real. This is nothing but amnesty and will attract and encourage millions more to pour into this country.

I guess we'll see, won't we? I believe the President has given this a lot of thought, especially since he dealt with it as Governor of Texas.

[txdoda]

That's the spirit - get the lad out there working.

He did, however he was much more interested in a job where he felt like he might *learn* something.

but $0.05 is ridiculous.

My same thoughts, the 'captain' does however work around the many band/football game hours she has to put in........her next raise was $0.13 p.h. (I'll never eat fish there again, & they don't pay the non-band employees any better.)

[txdoda]

"but they're just doing the jobs that 9.45 million legal visa applicants don't want to do!" ?

Good One !!! I'll have to remember & USE that one.

[WRhine]

Tancredo has addressed your concern:

Thanks Fatalis. I have already read Tom's plan and understand your point. My point is that no Guest Worker Plan should be offered in lieu of the government doing their job...even if the government has to do their job first.

What concerns me is that after the Government (ahem) supposedly fulfills their lawful responsibilities under Tancredo's plan and the Guest Worker plan is installed it's back to business as usual with the government. I just don't trust government to do the right thing here, when decade after decade suggests trust is not in order.

Also, we have millions of unemployed Americans in the lower/middle classes and with 1 million plus legal immigrants pouring into this country every year a Guest Worker Program is IMO nothing more Cheap Labor subsidy to business. We don't need it.

[Independentamerican]

And the financial incentives for American companies and inventors to automate much of this manual labor would skyrocket. It's just laughable that the most technically advanced country in the world would want millions upon millions of 3rd world peasants to undermine our strengths in innovation, not to mention our culture. It's all based on short-term greed.

I have started to wonder if there is some pill that elected politicians take that automatically makes them forget where they came from and the people that elect them. People criticize parties for being big business etc etc etc. But Greed is what alot of big businesses seem to represent. Look at how scandals have plagued the mutual fund industry. Why do companies move manufacturing facilities offshore ? I remember reading in my freshmen year reading a business law book and there was a chapter in their about responsibilities businesses have to local communites. The copyright date was 1998. I guess that is why those books are re-written ever 4 years because times/policies are always changing.

[WRhine]

It means come on in, boys, and feel free to let that arab with a nuclear device tag along with you.

You bet, and Employer/Employee Matching puts up millions of jobs in America for sale to the lowest world bidder. Is this any way to run a country?

[itsahoot]

If he orders them, they will follow their oath. Which oath do you think is taken more seriously?

The following oath is taken by all personnel inducted into the armed forces of the United States, as found in the US Code, Section 502.


I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

President of the United States (Executive Branch)


"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[NJ_gent]

"Is this any way to run a country?"

You bet it is... a great way to run it - straight into the ground.

[Fatalis]

I just don't trust government to do the right thing here, when decade after decade suggests trust is not in order.

You are holding out for a utopia that won't happen. Folks are restless, and tired of the status quo. More and more will say, as they have on this thread, "well at least the Bush plan has a chance." They see it as the only option to the status quo, and begrudging support for Tancredo only bolsters that perception.

What plan would you rather have, Tancredo's, McCain's, Cornyn's, or Cannon's? Who would you rather empower?

[WRhine]

I have started to wonder if there is some pill that elected politicians take that automatically makes them forget where they came from and the people that elect them. People criticize parties for being big business etc etc etc. But Greed is what alot of big businesses seem to represent. Look at how scandals have plagued the mutual fund industry. Why do companies move manufacturing facilities offshore ? I remember reading in my freshmen year reading a business law book and there was a chapter in their about responsibilities businesses have to local communites. The copyright date was 1998. I guess that is why those books are re-written ever 4 years because times/policies are always changing.

Excellent Post. As a long time stock market investor I've never seen so much corporate corruption in my life, and you can take it to the bank that this is the tip of the iceberg. Ethics have been totally forgotten by this generation and there will be a steep price to pay for this.

The Baby Boom generation is the Spoiled Rotten Generation.

[livius]

I don't think Tancredo's proposal is bad, but I just don't see how it can be done. If we can't get them out now (without investing an amount of money and manpower that would be prohibitive, especially with the Iraq war going on), how would we be able to do it under his program? That is, they'd still continue to elude us because they'd certainly rather stay here as illegals than have to go back and go through the time-consuming process of trying to get back. Plus, during their absence, employers would just go find other illegals.

Basically, I think the situation has gotten to such a point that we need to think of the quickest, cheapest solution possible. And then once we've got a grip on the immediate problem (that is, once we've identified the illegals, registered them, know where they live and something about their backgrounds) we can structure a permanent guest worker program - but ONLY for Mexicans. I don't think we should bring in Islamic guest workers, as the Europeans did.

Something I would like to see tied to any program is the requirement that even the "guest workers" take English classes, have a short course in American history, etc. I haven't seen anything like this mentioned anywhere, and I think it's crucial. Of course, the left in CA and elsewhere is not going to like it, but I think it would be enormously helpful in making Mexican immigrants, even temporary ones, more committed to the US.

[itsahoot]

It's not a delusion, amnesty for illegal aliens has been thwarted several times during this Presidency already.

Since there is no enforcement of current legal status, we already have De facto amnesty, don't we?

[Plutarch]

The Bush proposal takes a more enlightened approach.

You just know that something is really really bad when it is described as enlightened. If you are against an enlightened proposal you are, by definition, benighted.

[Independentamerican]

"These millions of border jumpers are driving *down* the freaking wages."

Okay by reading all of these posts everyone seems to be giving reasons as to why it benefits are Government to contiune to let illegals into our country.

1.Keeps wages low which benefits big business.
2.May provide more taxable income
3.No extra expenses in hiring more border patrol agents
4.Panders to a big portion of the hispanic vote since they are or soon will be the 2nd largest ethnic group in this country.

And I am sure I missed a few others but there seems to be alot of reasons as to why we may never protect our borders. I guess in our governments eyes a war on terror has nothing to do with protecting our borders huh ?

[untrained skeptic]

We can find them now without a guest worker program. Congress has a voluntary program in place by which employers can verify if a prospective employee has a legal right to work in the United States. Simply make that program mandatory and you can identify the shops that are employing illegal aliens.

I suspect that a large number of the companies employing these illegal aliens already know they are illegal aliens. Employers are already required to check that their employees can be legally employeed.

Requiring that particular check may disuade some employeers, and if it's cost effective sounds like a good idea. However, it's not going to work with the companies that are already knowingly hiring these people.

The purpose of the guest worker program should be an inducement for employers to seek inexpensive labor through a legal venue and to provide an opportunity and incentive for illegal aliens to return to their home countries and get in line for legal admission.

Do you really think these people are going to travel back to their own country and wait in line? You think somewhere between 8 to 12 million people are going to give up their sources of income and travel back to Mexico where they don't have any means of supporting themselves, and wait for permission to reenter the US? Do you think that they're going to risk the chance that they won't be allowed to reenter, and then have to risk the dangerous route or illegally reentering the US again?

We don't have ther resources to round up and deport 8 to 12 million people.

Our court system can't process the inevatable appeals.

We don't have any place to hold the people while processing their deportation.

There's also the fact that if you tried rounding up that many people and forcibly removing them from the country, you'd have open revolt in some communities.

Things would get very, very ugly. People would die. Riots would destroy millions if not billions in property.

Is it really worth it just to punish people for breaking some of the most ignored laws in our country?

These people came here because there's nothing for them in Mexico. Many risked their lives in comming here. They are desperate, and telling them to trust that they can come back if they go back to Mexico where they have no job and no place to live isn't going to be comforting to them.

It seems like the majority of people want this now, but as soon as people see what it really involves the backlash against the government would be amazing.

There's a lot of politicians talking tough, but very few are going to support an effective effort to remove the illegal aliens currently in the US. That means they'll talk, but nothing will happen, and the problem will get worse.

[itsahoot]

That he called out the national guard 27 times and declared martial law 34 times means nothing to me out of the context

Just trying to point out that governors once understood the power they had with their own private army.

Of course the Feds saw that too and arranged to be able to make the National Guard subject to federalization, just like the reserve.

My parents used to tell me that Bill also threatened to use the National Guard against the army, I don't know the particulars anymore, if I ever did.

I remember Eisenhower Federalized the Arkansas National Guard, before sending troops into Little Rock to desegregate the schools there.

[txdoda]

Furthermore, this keeps the money flowing to Mexico, which has so far not been very cooperative because it relies on the income from its emigrants,regardless of their legal status. Keeping the money flowing legally would enable us to get more cooperation out of Mexico in dealing with the problem of illegal immigration, people smuggling, and non-Mexican immigration through Mexico.

Why is it up to the US taxpayers to foot the bills for mexico's illegals so they can then keep mexico's economy pumped up ???

Last I saw mexico ranked about 14th economically in the world out of more than 200 countries.

How *cooperative* do you think mexico's PRI party is going to be when they are *back* in power come 2006 ??......Keep in mind any *deals* made with Fox we have to *expect* the PRI to then honor (honor being their weakest link....they don't even *honor* their own citizens)

[WRhine]

You are holding out for a utopia that won't happen.

utopia? LOL. Unless you caught my drift, I'm actually quite pessimistic on the chances for any positive reforms on the issue of illegal immigration, Tom's plan notwithstanding.

The right position is that we don't need a guest worker program. Period. These politicians work for us, not the other way around. Most Americans are against this nonsense. That should be the message to Congress and the WH. You start "compromising" with the "compromised" and you are going to end up with a bad deal.

[itsahoot]

I believe the President has given this a lot of thought, especially since he dealt with it as Governor of Texas.

By thinking about it a lot I guess, since nothing changed for the better. Unless better means that Hispanics are now the majority population in Texas and California.