Posted on 09/30/2004 9:04:32 PM PDT by West Coast Conservative
LOCKHART: DEBATE CONSENSUS A 'DRAW'
Unbeknownst to Kerry adviser Mike McCurry, a C-SPAN camera quietly followed McCurry as he found Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart on Spin Alley floor and asked him his impression of the debate. Lockhart candidly said to McCurry , “The consensus is it was a draw.”
Reminds me of when Kerry said
"Those words mean something to me, as somebody who has
been in combat. Last resort. You've got to be able to look
in the eyes of families and say to those parents, ..."
(multiple choice)
a) I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky
b) "...in a fashion reminiscent of Jenjis Khan"
c) "I actually voted for the $87 billion before I voted
against it."
Yeah, but IIRC Lockhart just had been interviewed as saying Kerry won.
Kerry loves to hear his own voice and is well schooled in rhetoric. I think a lot of people, even on this forum, fell under his spell. He was so smooth, so slick. When you've had time for the spell to wear off and start reading the transcript where Kerry's grandious rhetorical style will not help him, I believe you will begin to see the debate differently. Bush hammered Kerry several times. Kerry truly was all style and no substance. Reading the transcript in the cold hard light of day will show that. Bush hammered his message which was the right thing to do. As another poster said, Kerry came across as a "carping teenager".
Sure he does. He just checks D.} All of the above.
"I actually said he wasn't a threat before I agreed he was."
But by then, he wasn't because we'd captured him.
Remember the line? "President Bush sends his greetings."
I would agree with your summary. But, there's a gift to Bush here that will keep on giving. Lots of folks saw this debate, now the RNC can hammer Kerry with his past comments (as recently as last week) and how they vary from his debate "performance". Lots of grist for that mill!
Yup. Unless someone has the video there is no story here. Where is the smoking gun Drudge?
Whoa ! bump !!
THE PROBLEM IS....a big part of how the UNDECIDEDS see this...has to do with atmospherics.
If they really looked at issues.....they would not be undecideds at this point.
"Looking like a President" really is a big part of how the debate comes off.
Sure...it may have been a draw....but Bush could have finished this tonight. Instead...Kerry...sounding pretty...was enough to give his folks some fire.
And now its gonna come down to two debates (that were supposed to favor Kerry) and everyday of the rest of the campaign.
Bush did well enough to hold his own...but that should never be the target goal.
Bush tapered off at the end. One has to bring more than an hour of statements...to a 90 minute debate.
In the next two debates...Bush has to avoid the trap of being defensive. He needs to ignore some of Kerry's statements.
He can still point out where Kerry has made a bogus statement...but he can't let that take up all of his time.
He still needs to sell himself.
After tonight...we are now in a tighter race than we were yesterday.
What do you mean, he saw it on a C-Span camera. Someone has to have that video.
I thought I heard lockhart on the radio saying kerry won, but I'm not quite sure.
Crushing the MSM while they sleep BUMP!
The Dems were looking for Kerry to get his message out in this debate. All he did was rehash the same rhetoric he's been spinning for the past 18 months on the campaign trail. He may have been more refined in his speaking abilities, but he didn't say anything new. Nothing he said would make an undecided voter feel safer if Kerry was in charge.
Where is this? I searched the transcript on fox and couldn't find it and I rewatched parts of the debate? I would love to have the actual lines so I can cut them out of the video and splice them back to back. with a stop watch showing how long it was before he flip-flopped.
Even only 2 hours out of the debate I feel alot better about how Bush actully did. Kerry is so verbose, he blinds you.Alan Keyes has the same problm, though he's at least right 80% of the time...or at least he used to be.
The Global Test gaffe is huge , especially once the RNC does something with it. That was really the only memorable gaffe of the night. Of course, none of the pundits called it a gaffe but they aren't always right. Scrach that -- they're rarely right.
Nader is the real winner. All week Kerry sounded like Dean. In the debate he sounded more like GWB with a Monday morning quarterback viewpoint. Bottom line, under Kerry the US troops will not leave until victory is achieved. The war will go on. Left wing anti war Dems are greatly disappointed. The hardcore may stay home or vote for Nader. Kerry did not land a knock out punch and GWB did not say something real stupid. Tactically Kerry wins the debate in terms of performance, but strategically he has not changed the big picture in terms of polls.
I have to agree with Lockhart. Kerry did well, at least as far as presentation goes. I think it's fair to say he is a much better debater than he is a speechmaker, whereas President Bush is probably the opposite. But i think Bush did what he set to do, that is to play it safe and not make any major gaffes. There is where i believe some Freepers are disappointed, because they were hoping he'd be much more aggressive and go for the jugular.
On the other hand though, it is good to remember that with these types of debates (ones that are highly scrutinised for days afterwards) the initial perception is not always the one that will end up prevailing. Especially if it turns out that Kerry can be shown to have engaged in many half-truths or even outright lies throughout. And already his comment about a "global test" may also come back to haunt him from this debate.
So all in all i thought it was a decent outing for Bush but that some Freepers (judging from various posts i've read this evening) may have gotten too caught up in the hype that said Bush would simply run all over Kerry.
I think in the end it has to be viewed as missed opportunities for Bush even though the deck was clearly stacked against him and he scored major points at times, but Kerry, given the advantage of Lehrer never asking him a single question about his work as a Senator during the Cold War, was handed the opportunity to repeat his most recent reincarnations and took advantage of it.
Bush has already won the election. But he has to continue to campaign as if he's 5-10 points behind. He'll pick it up I'm certain. I'm not buying at all the line that the rats are energized over their guy now. Put Terrorayza on a screen in front of the talking heads and their noses positively shrivel up. In other words, Kerry is still a PHONY and
IT'S STILL OVER!
Logic says you are right but can you name anyone else who saw it or, better yet, taped it?
The Freepers seem silent on this one. It is just strange. The normal scheme would be 10 instant confirmations of "Yah, I saw it". I haven't seen one. But I want to.
Don't think I'm the only one who saw that rhetoric in the actual debate. Kerry held his own and was able to come off alright "cosmetically". The President was on point, with facts, without being in the gutter with Kerry. Bush didn't hit any homers but he ran all the bases and brought in the runs.
When the substance of the debate is analyzed, Kerry's comments are cause for serious concern.
I disagree.
Typical undecideds are that way because they don't feel pressure to pay attention to the election cycle until the final days of the campaign.
They have no personal attachment to either candidate, they are focused only on their own lives until it is demanded they show some attention to the events of the day.
These people are looking dispassionately at the debates weighing both style and substance. Style will decree Kerry either won or had a draw.
They will vote according to two issues.
1) Substance
2) Momentum
On substance, Bush won. Momentum is whom they perceive to be the majority's candidate in the final few days of the election. It is unknown who will have the edge on the big "MO" at this time.
Stylistically, victories are meaningless except for bragging rights.
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