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Live Thread: CBS Evening News (Dan tells us why we're all wrong)
www.freerepublic.com | September 10, 2004

Posted on 09/10/2004 3:18:38 PM PDT by Howlin

Edited on 09/10/2004 4:53:58 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Have at it.

******Transcript************



'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET

The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.

Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.

A transcript is attached:

BUSH DOCUMENTS

EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER

9-10-04

Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:

--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?

--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?

--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?

--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?

--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?

These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.

Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.

They alleged the documents are FAKE.

Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.

HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.

SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.

BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.

HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.

DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.

HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.

Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.

I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."

Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.

Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."

Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."

Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."

Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.

Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"

Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."

Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS

Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."

Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"

Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."

Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?

Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."

Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.

So far, there is none.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: District of Columbia; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 2004electionbias; brithume; bush; cbs; cbslies; dannyrather; danratherbiased; disgraceful; dnctalkingpoints; downwiththeship; foxnews; fredbarnes; frequency; juanwilliams; jumpedtheshark; killian; lyingliar; mediabias; memos; outofworkhack; ratherbiased; resignnow; tang
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To: DaveMSmith

Gotcha - I'm not at a TV. Were they still going after the story, or were they gulping down the Kool Aid, reciting McAwful's talking points?


821 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:07 PM PDT by CFC__VRWC
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To: demkicker

CBS = "See? BS!"

And to comply with states requiring English AND Spanish...
CBS = ¡Si! ¡BS!


822 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:09 PM PDT by the infidel
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To: Dont Mention the War
It's the same thing the cable news channels do. At 11 p.m. Eastern, they start rerunning the shows that were live three hours earlier.

True in a sense ... but not true. I am an institutional equities trader here in LA. The stockmarket, being NY based closes at 1pm. So I go to work at an ungodly hour ... and get off work at 1pm.

When I get home I watch cable news. It is aired LIVE when I watch it. True, it is aired at 3 hour intervals throughout the night. But I catch it LIVE everyday.

Apparently this is NOT the case with the networks.

823 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:13 PM PDT by BunnySlippers ("F" Stands for FLIP-FLOP ...)
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To: handy

Two words: "left justified."


824 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:14 PM PDT by P.O.E.
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To: GailA

He doesn't have the originals. The memos are written by a dead man. No explanation where they came from. Very convenient.


825 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:14 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: DaveMSmith
Dan Rather is not "going down with the ship." It's more specific than that. He's has scuttled the ship, and insisted that all the crew stay on board with him as it sinks. That's not courage; that's Jim Jones Kool-Aid insanity time.

Congressman Billybob

826 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:29 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Visit: www.ArmorforCongress.com please.)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Good one, Meek!


827 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:32 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
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To: Mitchell
Courtney Love? LOL!

You might recall she went ballistic when some supposed private investigator challenged the suicide - and suggested she was involved! It was a real knockabout, I think she sued.

828 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:39 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: johnb838

...michael moore...

Yes, and we know that he feels he runs the movie industry - which is based on illusion.

Gee with all the equipment in Hollywood they could make anything look real. No matter what they do - this does not pass the smell test.

Rather is trying to use his position to change the outcome of an election. Seems there would be a way to call for equal time for the opposition.


829 posted on 09/10/2004 4:27:52 PM PDT by ClancyJ (Vote for President Bush - For our grandchildren. Democrats are not to be trusted with our country)
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To: handy

Mr. Matley's homepage: http://hometown.aol.com/mmatley/


830 posted on 09/10/2004 4:28:02 PM PDT by flying Elvis
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To: Fabozz

"Speaking of which, just how common were photocopiers in the National Guard in 1972?"

I can't speak concerning the Guard but I began servicing photocopiers in 1972 and they were in use on Army and Air Force bases at that time. Photocopiers had been in use in businesses for several years prior to 72.


831 posted on 09/10/2004 4:28:24 PM PDT by RipSawyer ("Embed" Michael Moore with the 82nd airborne.)
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To: Semper Paratus

exactly what I was thinking


832 posted on 09/10/2004 4:28:34 PM PDT by Endeavor
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To: CFC__VRWC

To a certain extent she will have divided loyalties. Yes, she wants to hurt W. But as a loyal NBC employee, she also wants to hurt CBS.

I'll be fascinated to tune to Monday's Today Show to watch "Katie's Choice"!


833 posted on 09/10/2004 4:28:36 PM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: Congressman Billybob

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall at upcoming meetings about this?


834 posted on 09/10/2004 4:28:37 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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To: NavySEAL F-16; logos

Lord, how I miss it sometimes.

The team....nothing ever replaces that team. You'd die for that team.


835 posted on 09/10/2004 4:28:55 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proudly Supporting BUSH/CHENEY 2004!)
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To: A Citizen Reporter
Marcel Matley is document examiner for CBS. Dan says that the docs were copied and faxed, thus couldn't be examined over the internet. Only by their expert.

I noticed Matley didn't show the signature on the "memo" dated Aug. 1. That signature doesn't remotely match Killian's authentic signature.

836 posted on 09/10/2004 4:29:20 PM PDT by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: Mike Fieschko
"marcel matley" + handwriting ... into google search and you get
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22marcel+matley%22+handwriting&btnG=Search

... a bunch of pages referring to the guy as a HANDWRITING expert. So Dan is relying on the easily faked 'scan and paste' signature to prove the docs are genuine. And he thinks we are going to believe this crap. Shhesh, talk about ingnorant, Dan takes the cake.
837 posted on 09/10/2004 4:29:35 PM PDT by snooker
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To: numberonepal
>> Rather: Strong says the highly charged political atmosphere of the guard at the time was perfectly represented in the new documents.

>> "It verged on outright corruption in terms of the favors that were done, the power that was traded, and it was unconscionable. From a moral and ethical standpoint, it was unconscionable."

It's the Kerry Offense! Trash the Guard. Whatever it takes to discredit the President.

838 posted on 09/10/2004 4:30:06 PM PDT by Graymatter
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To: mabelkitty
You should add the 4's near the top of this list. 4's produced on a typewriter are open at the top. 4's on a word processor are closed. Compare the genuine Bush ANG documents, where the 4's are open at the top, to Rather's forgeries, where the 4's are closed at the top.
839 posted on 09/10/2004 4:30:08 PM PDT by Gee Wally
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To: Political Junkie Too

Colmes is going to have bathed in it.

Think Juan was at a loss? Colmes is going to be on a tear to destroy the people raising questions about the character of those he thinks are saints.

I expect shouting tonight. LOL


840 posted on 09/10/2004 4:30:11 PM PDT by Soul Seeker
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