Posted on 08/26/2004 4:52:39 PM PDT by AuntB
Rep. Dana Rohrbacher spoke today about his bill to stop various republicans, democrats and special interest groups from bestowing Social Security benefits to illegal aliens on CNN's Lou Dobb's program.
Though Mr. Rohrabacher's bill doesn't go far enough to address the crisis of illegal immigration, he did bring up many interesting points. Legislation, on a bi-partisan effort, is asking to give illegals Social Security benefits only after earning 6 quarters of work credit, whereas U.S. citizens must work 40 quarters to qualify. The absurdity of this is too obvious to debate.
The following is from Rep. Rohrabachers website.
No Social Security for Illegal Aliens
The federal government is thinking about giving away Social Security benefits to illegal aliens.
Various interest groups are pushing for the Social Security Administration to sign a "Totalization Agreement" with Mexico that would entitle illegal aliens to Social Security benefits. With Social Security and Medicare in crisis, this is so irresponsible it takes the breath away.
Congress must act, and act now. I have introduced legislation, H.R. 1631, that would forbid any Social Security credits for illegal aliens or work in violation of the terms of a visa. This would emphatically not affect those who have a legal right to work, such as legal permanent residents or those who have valid work visas.
Estimates vary, but even the lowest figures show adding illegal aliens to the Social Security rolls will cost the Social Security Trust Fund billions and billions of dollars. Seniors should ask why anyone would want to give those dollars to illegal aliens, draining funds available for Social Security and Medicare benefits, and reward those who break the law.
Joel Mowbray, who writes for The National Review and The Washington Times has a very disturbing article on this issue. It should send a chill through the heart of anyone concerned about the solvency of Social Security.
My legislation HR 1631:
Forbids anyone working in the United States illegally from being able to participate in the Social Security system.
This includes not only undocumented (illegal) aliens, but anyone working in violation of the terms of their visa. (Someone on a tourist visa, for instance, is excluded.)
Why this legislation is necessary:
Current law is silent on this issue. While the SSA currently will not grant benefits to workers without a valid Social Security number, this is an administrative policy. Unless Congress acts, this policy can legally be changed by the Social Security agency. The U.S. State Department has been pushing for including illegal aliens in the Social Security system to use as a "carrot" to gain the Mexican government's cooperation on various international issues (the war on terrorism, criminal extradition agreements, etc.)
The 2000 Census results show over 11 million illegal aliens living in the United States.
If even one third of these become eligible for Social Security, it will devastate the system.
* Social Security benefits are weighted to give higher proportional benefits to lower wage workers. Most of these illegal aliens are very low wage earners, so they would receive far more than they paid in. * Joel Mobray from The National Review has estimated potential costs at $345 billion dollars * It will be a bookkeeping nightmare. Many illegal aliens create false Social Security numbers, use the Social Security numbers of others, and share both false and "borrowed" Social Security numbers with many others who use them also. Determining a verifiable work history will be impossible. * Making someone eligible for Social Security would also provide benefits to their spouses and dependent children, and not only Social Security but possibly Medicare -- upping the cost of this still further. * It rewards lawbreaking and encourages further illegal immigration. Some "Totalization Agreements" serve a useful function. Large corporations, both in the United States and abroad, often assign personnel to work in an overseas office for several years. During these years, personnel are "double taxed" -- they pay both Social Security and the equivalent tax in their native countries. Allowing the SSA and foreign agencies to give credit under one system toward retirement makes sense when it involves a limited number of persons working here legally and temporarily.
This is NOT the case with illegal aliens. MILLIONS of LAWBREAKERS with UNVERIFIABLE work histories will be added to the system -- causing a financial crisis.
"Bush floats the idea of hookin' up with "MCcainiac" "
Oh, my head almost bursts thinkin' about McCain/Fiengold. We knew what a mess it would be, it's impossible to believe they didn't. Somehow it benefits them, doesn't it?
This may be a done deal. I read a few months ago that our social security administration has already signed this deal. The only thing supposedly holding this up was getting Mexico's congress to sign on to it. Nothing was mentioned about our congress. The article said that it would only cost the US $105 million a year. This article was in the Mexican newspapers.
The Mexican newspapers have also reported how insolvent their social security system is. They have recently, within the past month, cut some of their citizens off the roles.
I agree with Fitz. This may be another way to prop up Mexico. You can bet there will be millions crossing this border claiming to have worked in the US. It will be a nightmare. The $105 million is a joke.
There is a current poll at http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/ which asks:
Do you believe illegal aliens should be able to collect social security benefits?
Since the democrats or republicans are NOT listening to the vast majority of U.S. Citizens, this may be the only place to voice your opinion. Hopefully you will also tell your legislators.
As Rep. Rohrabacher stated tonight, " The democrats want the votes and the republicans want the cheap labor".
Agree 100%. I'm already considering write-ins of Tancredo/Miller. They, at least, represent more of my convictions than either of the "running" candidates.
I have a feeling it cuts some kind of profits some wealthy types are getting from their connections in Mexico. What happens to the maquilas if Mexico has another revolution --- there are a few people who could lose some money and some very dirt cheap labor.
Mexico's pension plan going bankrupt is probably a serious enough problem that Bush feels they should be given ours and we can see the retirement age for Americans jump up by 10-15 years. Mexico has very strong unions and an over 70% unionization rate of it's labor force --- they aren't going to take being told they have no retirement left.
As my grandmother used to say, "It's enough to make a preacher cuss."
I know the SSA has a suspense file for mismatched W-2 data reported by employers. Discounting routine errors and married names there were some seven million mismatched forms as of 1998. Most were from employers in the agriculture, restaurant and hotel, and low-skilled service industries.
As I recall the SSA has restored earnings records from the suspense file. They'd be able to do it for the ILLEGALS once the Republicrats get the word from the corrupt government of Mexico.
As someone pointed out above, document fraud (how's it go? "$10,000 fine and a year in federal prison") don't mean jack if you are not a citizen. Some smart lawyer should start a class action representing citizens accused / convicted under similar statutes.
FReeped.
96% to 4% against the Invasion so far.
:D
Print Bennies, Jacks, or Hamiltons in 1/1,000,000th the quantity taxpayers are defrauded annually by stolen/fake SSI ID and see how quick and hard Sammy goes to work on you. Yet we can't get a verifiable SSI card to help stop the fraud. Totally asinine, it is.
I know what you mean about them being strong looking and able to get disability. That's common --- I wonder if refusal to learn English is viewed as a disability now --- it seems that way. I often see 30 year olds that get around easily and have babies who receive a disability check --- other than not speaking English, I doubt they have a real disability.
"...Americans need to get involved. Unless they vote these idiots out of office, this will continue..."
The time for peaceful & restrained protest is over, don't you think?
Watched the 200 or so Invaders marching to Swarzenegger's office today. Beating on drums and shouting their socialist "gimme gimme" garbage. Cops ensured security, so the protest'rs werent in danger.
What's to stop a bunch of FReepers from gathering, with police protection, and shouting....
"No benefits. No licenses. No welfare. No school. GET OUT!"
Let's bring this to the next level. Rohrbacher himself said we will get no satisfaction on this issue unless we create a firestorm.
Got your lighter?
I'm not finding anything current, yet, but Rohrabacher made it seem looming soon. Looks like this is partly State Dept. Someone on this thread said that. Gee, thanks, Powell.
"thus allowing people who split their careers between two countries to get retirement benefits from both. "
This is TOO funny. Just how many of us are gonna run on down there for a freakin' job!! Good greif.
Source: Joel Mowbry, "Illegal but Paid? The Question of Social Security for Mexicans," National Review, January 27, 2003. Daily Policy Digest
Friday, January 24, 2003
If top officials at the State Department and the Social Security Administration (SSA) implement a proposed agreement, the cost of Social Security could balloon by an additional $345 billion over the next two decades -- mostly for Mexican nationals who worked in the United States illegally, claims a report in National Review.
The proposed agreement, known as "Totalization," would combine the taxes paid into America's and a foreign country's respective social-security systems -- thus allowing people who split their careers between two countries to get retirement benefits from both.
~snip~
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/sos/2003/pd012403d.html
"...We are mutli-cultural don't ya know? We used to be a melting pot..."
Yep, now we're a tossed salad.
They can toss my salad.
No, I think these people need to be voted out period. Unless Americans get off their butts and get involved with the system, nothing else is going to work.
"What's to stop a bunch of FReepers from gathering, with police protection, and shouting.... "
Nothing has ever stopped us before.
Leave the lighter home. Don't count on police protection in any urban area. You might get it from a few rural sheriffs I've met.
~snip~
If top officials at the State Department and the Social Security Administration (SSA) implement a proposed agreement, the cost of Social Security could balloon by an additional $345 billion over the next two decades -- mostly for Mexican nationals who worked in the United States illegally, claims a report in National Review.
The proposed agreement, known as "Totalization," would combine the taxes paid into America's and a foreign country's respective social-security systems -- thus allowing people who split their careers between two countries to get retirement benefits from both.
The United States has such agreements with 20 countries. This pack, however, would differ by allowing illegal immigrants to claim credit for work performed using false Social Security numbers, says author Joel Mowbry.
The Totalization Agreement would have the greatest effect on disability benefit claims, where there are strong incentives for fraud. For example, if a 24-year-old-Mexican national who has worked illegally in the United States for three years presents documents from a friendly doctor and either a W-2 or pay stubs that indicate $12,000 in annual earnings, he will be eligible for the following benefits:
* Nearly $8,000 per year in disability income (adjusted for inflation), until age 65, at which point he would receive the same amount as retirement pay.
* If he is survived by his wife or dependents, his family would be able to receive up to almost $12,000 annually.
* If he dies at 60, and his widow lives to 85, U.S. taxpayers will be on the hook for nearly a half-million dollars.
That's for only one worker brought into Social Security by the pact. Currently, there are between 7 and 11 million illegals in the United States -- about half of whom are from Mexico.
Source: Joel Mowbry, "Illegal but Paid? The Question of Social Security for Mexicans," National Review, January 27, 2003.
For NR text
http://www.nationalreview.com/preview/preview012703.asp
For more on Social Security
http://www.mysocialsecurity.org/filters/currentproblems.html
Yeah, like how many in America can "retire" on 1000 pesos a month from Mexico? Geesh! "TOTALIZATION" of the US SSI is exactly the correct terminology.
Current law is silent on this issue. While the SSA currently will not grant benefits to workers without a valid Social Security number, this is an administrative policy. Unless Congress acts, this policy can legally be changed by the Social Security agency. The U.S. State Department has been pushing for including illegal aliens in the Social Security system to use as a "carrot" to gain the Mexican government's cooperation on various international issues (the war on terrorism, criminal extradition agreements, etc.)
Hey Barnacle. See above. This is just for openers of the Assaults on America and her Citizens we will see in Bush's second term (as if we haven't seen enough). Have you been reading about how Bush made sure his own people were in charge of writing the republican platform? Yeh, they even put his announced Amnesty for Illegal Aliens right in the platform, almost word for word under the cynical title of “immigration reform” of course. “Reform” meaning rewarding and encouraging more illegal immigration.
Now, what was it you were telling me a few days ago about this election? About the high stakes and all that rot? And what again are the differences between republicans and democrats? I just get so confused these days. Which ones are supposed to be conservative and looking out for the interests of Americans?
"The Dems are traitors and the GOP is too, it would seem. Maybe it is time for an American Nationalist Party."
There is no doubt in my mind that what you say is true. The Rat party is out of control bordering on rabid socialism, communism, deaniacism, and hildebeast world government while the republican party is non-exsistant and silently goes along. The new party needs to set forth the values and thinking found on FR. I believe the only chance at saving this republic, its constitution, and capitalism lies in forming an alternative political party.
" About the high stakes and all that rot? And what again are the differences between republicans and democrats? I just get so confused these days. Which ones are supposed to be conservative and looking out for the interests of Americans?"
I understand how you feel. I've felt like that for the past 5 or so elections. Once my idealism got me Jimmy Carter. Twice it got me Bill Clinton. If we can't afford George Bush, we sure can't afford Kerry. They are a wash on immigration, so I'm picking other issues to vote on. I think Colin Powell needs kicked over this SS for illegals big time. Today was the first I heard this was a SSA and a State Dept. deal.
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