Warsaw uprising: How to heal the wounds?

Gerhard Schroeder will be the first German Chancellor to attend Poland's commemorations of the Warsaw uprising. Poland's Prime Minister, Marek Belka, is keen for the German Chancellor to dispel the "bad atmosphere" between their two countries on the 60th anniversary of the uprising.

The Warsaw uprising against their Nazi occupiers lasted for 63 days and resulted in the deaths of about 200,000 Poles and the total destruction of the city.

The Polish resistance believed that Russia, US and UK would provide assistance but very little help arrived.

Mr Belka has also said that the Polish people would welcome an apology from Britain for not doing enough to assist the Warsaw uprising.

How should the wounds over the Warsaw uprising be healed? Are Germany and Poland good neighbours now? And should the UK apologise? Send us your views.

Some wounds take a long time to heal, but it is nevertheless admirable that the Germans have seized the opportunity for reconciliation. It is a landmark event that is representative of bright prospects for EU unity. Prashanth Parameswaran, Malaysia

While 60 years is a long time, Britain should apologize out of guilt at least - 200,000 people is a devastating loss. Prashanth Parameswaran, Malaysia

WD Krueger, Udonthani, Thailand The uprising clearly demonstrated that aspirations and hopes of the people are always being ignored by politics. Stalin halted the Red Army to wait for his own hidden agendas and the allies did nor provide any help for their own hidden agendas. Churchill of course had already drawn a map with Stalin as to who has what say in what area that was to become the Soviet Union's cordon sanitaire until 1989 when the USSR collapsed. WD Krueger, Udonthani, Thailand

We went to war for Poland in 1939, we bankrupted a huge Empire fighting it, we had no way to stop the Nazi's in 1944 in Poland, and we certainly didn't have any way of stopping Russia taking over Poland after the war. Theo, UK

During the World War II living under the German terror unimaginable for the people from the west Poland being a western ally lost: 25% of its population 39% of doctors 33% of teachers 26% of lawyers 70% of industry 90% of cultural heritage (in Warsaw alone) We do not need apologies (perhaps for the Germans) but we ask you to remember about that Tom, Warsaw

Apologies are absurd once the leadership of the generation who offended, or not, are dead. Make no exceptions to that rule and you cannot go wrong. Andrew, London

Poland should celebrate and be very proud of the bravery of their fellow citizens that, against great odds, stood up to the Nazis and fought back with everything they had. France surrendered quickly and yet has no problem throwing annual fancy glittery parades and praising their role in the war. Don't worry about "old wounds", celebrate Poland's brave and noble stand against Nazis. I salute you, Poland. Alistair Asquith, NJ, US / London, UK

How can the wounds of World War II be counted as "healed" when today the few thousand European Jews left on the Continent are again leaving it to escape resurgent anti-Semitism, as well as the apathy of "good Europeans" who stand by and do nothing to stop it? Cole, USA

The Polish patriots who died fighting need no phoney apologies from present day politicians. Anyone who reads the history and views the photos knows what happened. The UK WWII conduct was second to none. Everyone present here now should be thankful. xtela, USA

I think Poland doesn't need apology. What Poland needs is good memory to trust no allies. Artur, Krakow, Poland

I personally do not think that Poland need any "apology" from the UK but simply recognition of some basic facts: Poland was the first country to oppose both Germany and Soviet Union in 1939. Its contribution to the allies' victory was huge and the Warsaw uprising (when on Hitler's order Warsaw was razed to ground and 150 000 civilians executed) Monte Cassino, Battle of Britain, Normandy are examples of heroic battles polish soldiers fought. Not to mention breaking the Enigma code and delivering it to England or alarming the Allies about Germans' death camps. For all of that we and other nations were left under Soviets for 50years Tadeusz, Krakow, Poland

Russia seems to get a lot of criticism for the failing to come to the aid of the Warsaw uprising. I have read Russian supreme commander Georgi Zukov's war journal and he said the Red Army had been fighting continuously for six weeks before arriving at the gates of Warsaw and was in need of rest and re-supply. Certainly from the military standpoint an army cannot fight continuously, and changing from open ground to urban warfare requires a different mix of weapons and tactics; tanks are especially vulnerable in city streets. Perhaps the political leadership of the Polish resistance should have co-ordinated with Russians, rather than trying to go it alone. Douglas Helmson, Glasgow

Poland seem to be the forgotten ally of WW2. They fought alongside the RAF and at Monte Cassino after their own country had been lost to the Germans. They lost over 120,000 troops that fought with the allies and another 60,000 men in the first 17 days of the German/Russian invasion of their own country. I feel they were woefully betrayed by the allies. In particular the USA and Russia. I don't really think Churchill had a choice when Poland was tossed away to the Soviets at the end of the war. It's good to see some form of reconciliation between Poland and Germany after 60 years though. Richard Fforbes, Warwickshire

The UK has always been treated by the Poles as a good ally and good friend. We had and still have strong and long relationship that I'm sure will be strengthened further in the years to come. During the Warsaw uprising Poland was let down by lack of confidence on the side of Britain and by the non-action. I think this is the main thing that hurts Poles today. If a Britain feels themselves as an ally of Poland, then they should apologise...if not, let's forget it. Pawel, London

No matter what we do, no matter how much we help, somebody always has to kick us in the teeth. Robert Sutton, Halifax, England

It is commendable and noble to see Gerhard Schroeder and Collin Powell attend the Uprising's 60th Anniversary. It is deplorable and shameful not to see Vladimir Putin attend. The wounds will not heal until the Soviet Government admits to deliberately withholding assistance to the insurgents. Paul Balcer, Herndon, VA

60 years, don't you think it's about time we let bygones be bygones? The people that made the orders at the top are long dead, move on, never forget, but don't dwell Paul Weaver, London, UK

After all these years thanks God many feelings has changed in Europe. The nightmares and evil spirits of those times are only memories now. There's no reason for Poland and Germany not to be good neighbours. Let's allow healing to work. As to Britain's apologies, they're no longer necessary. Mazurek, Brazil

Of course not! The British are continually told that this is all in the past and that we are now part of a United Europe. Germans no longer feel guilty about what they did and I fail to see why we should either. Perhaps an apology from Germany would be more appropriate? Mark S, UK

As a an Englishman at that time I felt totally ashamed at how we made promises and then abandoned them so quickly. I realize it was virtually impossible to realistically intervene but then don't falsely encourage. To compound matters never since then has any British leader had the courage or decency to apologise or offer reparations. Tony Blair should do both immediately, and apologise for the delay too. Jim Nicholls, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

Oh man, you really have to get rid of your inferiority complex.

Yes you repeat this all the time and I seems to don’t catch that at all.

This poem is not written by me.

I saw you wrote the author name. I wrote paste or wrote , you pasted poem and didn’t interpret what did you wanted to say. We were talked about Poland if you read our posts. You wrote many controversial posts in the past, it was nothing new for me.

When Poles stood up, it was too late. Sure, it was a great symbol, but even the resistance fighters knew that the uprising had to chance - with rifles against heavy artillery and tanks. There was no escape, and sadly even the Soviets failed to help them against the common enemy.

Moment was good, with Stalin marched polish army under command general Berling, they wanted to help but Stalin didn’t allowed them to do it, and when they ignore order and tried across Vistula river the Germans and the Russians shot to them like to ducks. Also in UK we have other polish troops ready to action but UK policy failed and didn’t send them there. Beside theoretically we have some allies, Poles didn’t knew about Teheran.

You see, within Polish authorities in exile in London there was a representative of Polish Jews - as probably the biggest minority in pre-war Poland. Unfortunately - I don't remeber his name.
He was trying desperately to help his compatriots in Poland by telling people in the West what's happening to Jews in occupied Poland. But no one believed him. His attempts to organise any help had no result at all. And because of that he commited suicide.

Source: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Szmul%20Zygielbojm

Szmul Zygielbojm was a Polish Politician and leader of Polish Jews. In 1943 he comitted a suicide to protest the voidness of Allied governments of United Kingdom and United States in the face of HolocaustThere are two monuments: one erected in London and one in Warsaw to comemorate Zygielbojm.

The Last Letter of Szmul Zygielbojm

To President W. Rackiewicz To the Chairman of the Council of Ministers - W. Sikorski

I take the liberty of addressing to you my last words and through you to the Polish government and people, to the governments and peoples of the Allied states and to the conscience of the world... The responsibility for the crime of murdering all the Jewish population in Poland falls, in the first instance, on the perpetrators, but indirectly it also burdens the whole of humanity, upon the peoples and governments of the Allied states that, so far, have made no effort towards a concrete action to put a stop to this crime... I cannot remain silent. I cannot live while the remnants of the Jewish people in Poland whose representative I am are being exterminated. My comrades in the Warsaw ghetto perished with their weapons in their hands in their last heroic battle. It was not my destiny to die as they did, together with them. But I belong to them and in their mass graves. By my death I wish to make the strongest possible protest against the passivity with which the world is looking on and permitting the extermination of the Jewish people. I know how little human life is worth today, but as I was unable to do anything during my life, perhaps by my death I shall help to break down the indifference of those who have the possibility now, at the last moment to save those Polish Jews still alive, from certain annihilation. My life belongs to the Jewish people in Poland and, therefore, I give it to them. I wish that the surviving remnants of the several millions of Polish Jews could live to see, with the Polish population, the liberation that it could know in Poland, in a world of freedom and in the justice of socialism. I believe that such a Poland will arise and that such a world will come. I bid farewell to everybody and everything that was dear to me and that I have loved.

"These are signs from the Warsaw Ghetto, it says "Juden", Jews, not Poles".

"These are Jews leaving the Ghetto, not Poles".

Please, mikvahyid, don't be ridiculous. Of course all the pictures are related to the Jews, because it was Jewish ghetto, not Polish. The Poles coulddn,t enter ghetto area, if anyone did, he would be shot. So it would be pointless to place in ghetto any signs relating to the Poles.

Outside ghetto, on the - so called "aryan" side there were also many places "nur fur Deutsche" (for the Germans only).

(((First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,

In the interest of historical accuracy the quote is actually as follows:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

THEY, in fact never came for the Catholics or the Protestants.

A unique article on the quote by someone who knew pastor Niemoller is here: http://www.christianethicstoday.com/Issue/009/First%20They%20Came%20for%20the%20Jews%20By%20Franklin%20H%20Littell_009_29_.htm

As a side note I would like to point out that I have aknowledged when people have corrected me, and tanked them, even though it was sometimes with a little sarcasm. I wish to point out that the major difference between the Warsaw Ghetto and the Warsaw uprising was that the Warsaw Ghetto from the beginning was designed to facilitate the annihilation of the Jews. The Polish population was conquered under the Nazis, but they were not slated for destruction as the Ghetto was. If they had not rebelled they would be living in Warsaw and perhaps speaking German.

THEY, in fact never came for the Catholics or the Protestants.

ha! In the WWII died 6 millions of Poles, half of them were Jewish, other Catholic, then I’m wonder how you explain what happen to those 3 millions of catholic Poles? They disappears? I also want add that 20 millions of Russians died in WWII, I don’t remember how many were Jewish. And EVEN if they would not come for Catholics and Protestants, you wanted to change it…

As a side note I would like to point out that I have aknowledged when people have corrected me, and tanked them, even though it was sometimes with a little sarcasm. I wish to point out that the major difference between the Warsaw Ghetto and the Warsaw uprising was that the Warsaw Ghetto from the beginning was designed to facilitate the annihilation of the Jews. The Polish population was conquered under the Nazis, but they were not slated for destruction as the Ghetto was. If they had not rebelled they would be living in Warsaw and perhaps speaking German.

Well I agree that peoples in ghetto fought cause they wanted to died with honor, they must knew that this uprising didn’t had any chances. But few of them survived and they used all this confusion and escaped from the Ghetto and polish underground hided them, great example is Marek Edelman one of the leader of Ghetto uprising who fought also in Uprissing44 and still living in Poland. He was politician, one of the members of “Solidarity” and known doctor.
Well ask yourself that 3 millions of peoples is too little, and it was be end of their crimes. Beside it is any sense to live without honor and human dignity, humiliated and oppressed. When the occupant could everything and you nothing.
But this would not change the war results, allies would defeat Hitler and Soviets would occupy Poland.
As for Poles speaking German or Russian, well my ancestors proofed that it is impossible no matter who tried. You know we had such phrase during the occupation. “No one from us speak, but although we all understand it”.

"I wish to point out that the major difference between the Warsaw Ghetto and the Warsaw uprising was that the Warsaw Ghetto from the beginning was designed to facilitate the annihilation of the Jews."

We really know It. I wrote it in #7.

Poles were treated terribly, however Jews were treated even worse - this is fact, but I still don't get your point. What do you want to tell us ? Maybe we should tell at the 60 anniversary of Warsaw Uprising: 200.000 Poles were killed in Warsaw Uprising, but it doesn't matter, because Jews were treated worse !!!

Those Jews were also part of Poland. Most of theme were Polish citizens if you like it or not.

The French uprising was in the Vercors region, on the Glières Plateau. The Resistants thought it was time to stop harras the Germans and to gather, according to Allied war plans. But they did that much too early, and got surrounded and isolated on the Plateau.

As a matter of fact, there was Allied help, in the form of supplies and ammunition paradropped. But the Germans quickly overran the drop zones, and the guys there either died or were sent to death camps, IIRC. As irregulars, they got no special treatment. In one instance, the Germans soldiers allegedly killed everybody in a cave that served as a field hospital.

Well, our fallen soldiers lay side by side in almost every battlefield where they fought - should they rise from the grave, THEY would probably tell us to bridge our gaps. After all, the British or German or Iraqi bullets that hit them really didn't care about national differences.

I think our political leaders should remember Chesapeake and Yorktown, but also Normandy and Strasbourg, the Liberation of Paris, the bloody close combat in the Argonne and the fight in Southern Iraq in 1991. Or the common fight in Afghanistan, and the joint action in Haiti.

I wish most French leaders would be brilliant enough to be byzantine ! Alas, most of the time they don't make any sense at all and they wriggle out of their responsibilities through heavy spinning. De Gaulle would be appalled at what they've done with his legacy - he would be appalled at having Chirac appointing himself as de Gaulle's heir, above all.

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