Party Over Principle? (My lone FReep of Arlen Specter)

Self - Vanity | n/a | Self

[Badray]

Party over Principle?

That is the $64,000.00 question.

This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.

There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.

I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.

This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .

He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.

He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.

What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.

Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.

I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.

Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.

I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.

Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).

Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.

On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.

Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.

What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.

This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.

Ray Horvath

[Doug Loss]

Why are "religious conservatives" so intent on making sure that their views prevail? Why can they not be tolerant of other positions? Why do they make such a big deal out of the need to be in control? Why are they the only group who worries about being in control and constantly complain that their needs are not being met?

You know, you seem to be tolerant of other positions only when you don't perceive them as threatening your leadership in the party. I can't think of any other reason you'd get so exercised about "religious conservatives" (and you seem to be equating all conservatives with religious ones) except that you feel they may actually take power from you. You keep calling us Right Wing Radicals (we are in actuality Constitutional conservatives--perhaps that's what seems radical) and in essence pleading that we just go away. That doesn't sound like the argument of someone who feels secure in his grasp of the reins of power.

As you say, my spiritual needs are also met through my church. But my political needs are only partly being met through the Republican Party, which is why so many of us are working to bend the party closer to our way of thinking. It's the same thing you're doing you know, except you already have bent the party toward your views. Don't take it hard if we don't roll over and do as we're told; it's just politics.

[jmc813]

I have a bigger problem with the large-government Republicans than I do with the socially liberal ones.

[smokeyb]

You know the George Soros, that Hillary butt kissed yesterday.

You mean George Soros, the one that donated the max to the Specter campaign (as did his wife)?

[BillyBoy]

>> You say that Zell Miller is preferable to Arlen Specter.
Which voting records are you comparing that scores Miller favorably to Specter?
Now I KNOW that you are just using emotional rhetoric and not facts. Specter has a better (more conservative) record than Miller. And I stand by the claim that any Republican is better than any Democrat. <<

It's ironic that I'd be the one to reply to this post and defending his "Miller is more conservative" statement since I am NOT a fan of Zig Zag Zell. It really annoys me when Zig Zag gets incessant praise heaped on him on FR and a free pass on carry Georgia for Slick and promoting McCain-Feingold (not to mention a REAL "true conservative" like my Senator, Peter Fitzgerald, is called a "RINO" for voting for less than a quarter of the liberal things Miller has supported) Zig Zag is no Paul Coverdell.

THAT SAID, even Zig Zag has a better voting record than an uber-RINO like Specter. Miller is an overall centrist and Specter is overall LEFT of center. Need proof? Here's their actual ratings from the American Conservative Union:

Zell Miller (D-GA) Lifetime Conservative Rating............... 65%
Arlen Specter (RINO-PA) Lifetime Conservative Rating... 43%

And plenty of examples if you click on those numbers and compare how the two of them voted:

Abortion Decision Affirmed. S. 3 (Roll Call 48)2003-03-12
This resolution affirmed that the Supreme Court’s 1973 decision legalizing abortion was correct. The American Conservative Union believes the original decision in Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided. The American Conservative Union opposed this resolution. It passed 52-46 on 12 March 2003 The American Conservative Union opposed this bill.
Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

Military Base Closings. HR 1588 (Roll Call 205) 2003-06-04 This amendment would have canceled the next round of military base closings. The American Conservative Union believes our military must be as “lean and mean” as possible, and that closing some bases can contribute to a strong defense. The American Conservative Union opposed the amendment. It was defeated by a vote of 42-53 on 4 June 2003.The American Conservative Union opposed this bill.
Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

Taxpayer Support for Abortion. S. 925 (Roll Call 267) 2003-07-09
This amendment would have repealed President Reagan’s “Mexico City policy,” under which the U.S. refuses to fund international family planning organizations that promote abortion. The American Conservative Union opposed the amendment. It was defeated by a vote of 43-53 on 9 July 20 The American Conservative Union opposed this bill.
Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

Overtime Rules Reform. HR 2660 (Roll Call 334)2003-09-10
This amendment would have stopped the U.S. Department of Labor from issuing new, more flexible rules for overtime pay to reflect changing employee desires and workplace conditions. The American Conservative Union SUPPORTed the new rules and opposed this amendment. It was adopted 54-45 on 10 September 2003.
The American Conservative Union opposed this bill.
Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

Individual Retirement Accounts S. 420 (Roll Call Vote No. 21 ) 0000-00-00
Sessions (R-AL) motion to protect individual retirement accounts from limitations imposed during bankruptcy proceedings. ACU supported this bill.
Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

Boy Scouts S. 1 (Roll Call Vote No. 189 ) 0000-00-00
Helms (R-NC) amendment to the education bill that would allow federal education funds to be withheld from public elementary and secondary schools that bar the Boy Scouts from using school facilities. ACU supported this bill. Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

International Criminal Court HR 3338 (Roll Call Vote No. 358 ) 2020-01-12
Dodd (D-CT) amendment that would move the United States towards participation in the International Criminal Court for the prosecution of crimes against humanity. ACU opposed this bill.
Sen. Arlen Specter voted: In OPPOSITION of The American Conservative Union
Sen. Zell Miller voted: In SUPPORT of The American Conservative Union

[Jeff Head]

I dearly wish that the needs of the "religious conservative" could be met. But, what some fail to realize is that as noisy as they are, and as well meaning as they are, and as passionate as they are, they simply are the minority.

Apparently George W. Bush and his campaign does not believe this.

You really should take the time to view the documentary:

The Jesus Factor

"The single most reliable predictor of how a person voted in the 2000 election was whether they went to church or to synagogue or mosque at least once a week. If [they did], two-thirds of them voted for George Bush."

"Evangelical Protestants are an absolutely critical part of the Republican base, the first stone in building the wall of re-election are evangelical Protestants."

The Bush campaign knows this and will not wander too far afield from it.

[Dane]

Why do you leave out the fact that joe hoeffel has a lifetime rating from the ACU(American Conservative Union) of 08.

[BillyBoy]

>>You've been outted as a Hillary plant<<
>>Specter is a better candidate than the one Badray is trying to push on his thread, Hillary backed Joe Hoeffel<<.
>> You wish to put a Hillary monkey flyboy (Hoeffel) as an incumbant <<
>>you Hillary endorsed Hoeffel supporters, are a sensitive bunch aren't ya.<<
>> you claim to be a conservative and yet act out in public as a shill for Hillary Clinton <<
>>Hillary backed Joe Hoeffel. Nothing more needs to be said.<<
>> We are about 2 senate loses away from having Hillary as chairman of the judiciary committee.<< <<

Blah...blah...blah..."vote for the scumbag RINO because CLINTON is backing his opponent!!!! If the RINO doesn't win, you've helped THE CLINTONS enact their AGENDA!!! You must be PRO-CLINTON!!"

Just as a point of reference, this was the same argument "pragmatic" (RINO promoting) "freepers" used to elect MIKE BLOOMBERG as Mayor of New York in 2001. Since Clinton was backing Bloomberg's RAT opponent (as is customary since they are in the same party), the "pragmatic" Republicans all rallied around the uber-RINO Bloomberg -- and he turned out to be WORSE than Clinton's token candidate (Make Green) could ever be.

Bloomberg is currently in the process of DESTROYING NYC, thanks to "conservatives" who held their nose and elected his socialist butt.

Are you RINO-apologists happy that BLOOMBERG won instead of the "Clinton" candidate?

Antoninus said it best:

"Who do you think Hitlery would rather have as chair of Judiciary -- Specter or Kyl?

[Dane]

Are you RINO-apologists happy that BLOOMBERG won instead of the "Clinton" candidate?

First of all, still silent on hoeffel's ACU rating of 08.

Second I don't have the expectation of Alan Keyes or Steve Forbes being elected mayor of NYC, that's just the way things are. Get used to it. You all, IMO, are in denial of Toomey's endorsement of Specter over hoeffel and get mad when reality is brought into the conversation.

[BillyBoy]

>> Why do you leave out the fact that joe hoeffel has a lifetime rating from the ACU(American Conservative Union) of 08. <<

Because the poster argued that leftist Specter had a "better" record than Zell Miller, not Joe Hoeffel. THAT was the incredibly stupid statement that needed a direct rebuttal. Specter votes TO THE LEFT of at least three "moderate" Democrats in the Senate.

Between liberal Specter and ultra-liberal Hoeffel, NEITHER candidate is acceptable to conservatives nor even "moderate" Republicans. A vote for either of them is a vote for someone who will support Daschle the MAJORITY of the time. PA is screwed either way. Thanks "pragmatic" primary voters.

JIM CLYMER for U.S. Senate 2004
www.jimclymer.com

[Dane]

Specter votes TO THE LEFT of at least three "moderate" Democrats in the Senate.

And you wish to put in a person, hoeffel, who votes to the left of 95% of all democrats in the Senate.

Oh yeah, your other hero, Clymer is a terrorist appeaser.

[BillyBoy]

>> the expectation of Alan Keyes or Steve Forbes being elected mayor of NYC, that's just the way things are. Get used to it. <<

Blah...blah...blah....James Buckley will never be elected, Al D'Amato will never be elected....vote RINO or else!

Oops!! Those wacky kool-aid drinking conservatives WON office after they ran against two leftists. And that's in New York, which is FAR more liberal than PA will ever be. Since the two parties nominated a pair of socialists, they went after the same voting "base" and split the liberal vote. Lone conservative gets a united base. Ta ha!! "Unelectable" conservative takes office.

You might try talking to Democrats with spine. How do you think Byron Dorgan (Conservative rating: 10%) got elected in ND when the state went to Bush by 67%?? Did you notice the Democrat "leaders" didn't scream "liberals are UNELECTABLE here!!! Nominate a pro-life, pro-gun DINO or you're working for the Republicans!!"

>> You are in denial of Toomey's endorsement of Specter over hoeffel and get mad when reality is brought into the conversation. <<

Actually, I'd be surprised if Toomey hadn't endorsed Specter. Toomey wants a political future and did the polite thing and endorsed leftist puke Specter so he doesn't burn bridges with the GOP establishment. If you actually bother to READ Toomey's interview after his token endorsement, you'd see Toomey's "endorsement" meant nothing. All it shows is that Toomey is an loyal guy who doesn't hold a grudge (quiet the opposite image that RINO Specter painted of him during the smear campaign) If the primary had gone the other way, RINO Specter certainly wouldn't have shown such honor and endorsed Toomey afterwards.
You Specter apologists first accused Toomey backers of being "purist" nuts who want a candidate (Toomey) to agree with us on EVERYTHING. Now, you're mad at us because we openly DISAGREE with our candidate's "endorsement". Toomey's a great guy but he's not right ALL the time. Hey, make up your mind before you attack. ;-p

>> And you wish to put in a person, hoeffel <<

Huh? What part of "NEITHER candidate is acceptable to Republicans" do you NOT understand from my post? Hoeffel will be a disaster as Senator. I wouldn't vote for him if you paid me. Specter already IS a disaster as Senator. I wouldn't vote for him if you paid me either. There's about a 99% chance that PA will have a socialist in office next year who undermines Bush or rubber-stamps Kerry's agenda. I didn't make this bed, you "pragmatic" Republicans did so in the primary. Now you're just upset that your predictions about Specter's wonderful "electablity" are NOT coming true. Boo-hoo. Stop pushing RINOs in the primary and dividing the base.
PA has 1% chance to elect a non-Democrat in 2004. His name is Jim Clymer.

>> who votes to the left of 95% of all democrats in the Senate. <<

lol. You think an 8% rating is "further left" than 95% of the Senate Dems? Gee, which Senate Democrats have you been looking at? Even in the midwest they vote like that. Dick Durbin (D-IL) (who claims to be moderate), has a lifetime rating of 7%. Tom Harkin (D-IA) is 9%. Mark Dayton (D-MN) is 9%. Hoeffel voted 20% this year. He is a typical RAT, nothing more, nothing less. You get what you pay for.

>> Oh yeah, your other hero, Clymer is a terrorist appeaser. <<

Would you care to cite your source and give me a statement from JIM HIMSELF where he comes out in favor of being lenient on terrorists? Or is this "guilt by association" because you don't like HOWARD PHILIP'S position and he happens to be the same party as Jim? If it's the later, I can play the "guilt by association" game too. We'll just PRESUME Snarlin' Arlen has all the same positions as his no. #1 backer, George Soros, how about that?

[Dane]

Or is this "guilt by association" because you don't like HOWARD PHILIP'S position and he happens to be the same party as Jim?

What I have to go on is the Constitution party itself and it's proposed nominee, Peroutka, who has basically stated that he thinks that saddam was a benign entity and not a threat to the US.

Also after your long tirade in your reply #773, I am just pointing out the facts that hoeffel is much worse than Specter, and Toomey basically stated such on the night of the primary.

[Doug Loss]

Excellent response. I'm proud to know you. Now, let's concentrate on out-maneuvering the Leftists.

Thank you. I'm happy to see that we can still discuss things civilly after the level of vitriol that's been hurled in this thread (not so much by you and me, just generally). I agree with you on that point. Beyond our disagreement on Arlen Specter, I think we're solidly in agreement that the (as Phil Brennan puts it) National Socialist Democrat Abortion Party (NSDAP) needs to be defeated both in general and in detail.

[staytrue]

Who do you think Hitlery would rather have as chair of Judiciary -- Specter or Kyl?

Who do you think Hitlery would rather have as Senator from PA -- Specter or Hoeffel?

By the way, I can type BLAH BLAH BLAH too.

[ClintonBeGone]

Blah Blah Blah typical blather from another Clintonite.

[staytrue]

My comments were in response to one of your supporters.

Please read post 769.

Blah, Blah, Blah indeed.

[gdc61]

"strength of conviction" is not crap. what has spilt from your mouth on the other hand...
Having "strength of conviction" is what drives most here on this thread.
the foresight to see the outcome of Specter as SJCC is something you obviously don't have,
or you relish the thought of further destruction of this nations Christian roots and foundation.
that you are a registered democrat is enough to make you suspect in my eyes.
If in fact you are pro life and consider yourself conservative PLEASE, explain your blatant avoidance of our often stated reasoning for rejecting Specter?

[gdc61]

"hitlery" is a true liberal, and would dump hoeffel in a NY minute to keep the chairmanship of the SJC in the hands of another true liberal,that being Specter.
I am sure that both the hildebeast and Sphencter licking there lips just waiting to rejuvinate the nasty decaying bodies with cloned baby stem cells.