Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
Payback's a bitch.
Do you realize the difference between the voters and the party hierarchy?
The party establishment abandoned Schundler in NJ AFTER he won the primary.
Here, we are walking away from a candidate that the party establishment (and the Democrats at the urging of the liberal Arlen Specter) tried to shove down our throats in the primary.
If the party establishment had stayed out and let the voters decide, we wouldn't be in this position. We'd be looking at 2 PA conservative Senators AND a conservative chairman for the SJC.
There is a difference.
Yep, calling all freepers. A circular firing squad will be assembling at noon tommorrow. Remember to bring your guns. Automatic weapons are a plus. Heavy artillery is even better.
At about 1, Sean Hannity will be hosting a "freepers eat their own" picnic. There will be lots of freeper body parts for eating.
Huh do you mean the party "establishment" as Rudy Guiliani who did a ton of TV spots for Bret Schundler and GW Bush who did recorded phone calls.
You should get over the bitterness that Bret Schundler lost, not because of the "party" establishment(60's radical vernacular by you Ray, IMO) but because of the voters who were bombarded by 4 years of pro-McGreevey press by the pro-demo NJ press. The voters in NJ are now seeing that they bought a lemon and are miffed, but you never blame the press. Hmmm.
OH BTW, I am going to state now that it was not me, is the "secret(anonomys source) yada, yada, yada" person who sent you the freepmail you referred to in your reply #740, nor did I incite anybody to send you that supposed private freepmail, that you psoted in your reply #740. <p. Nice try at playing the victim card(a democrat specialty) though, IMO, as you campaign for hoeffel on FR.
To be quite honest, I don't consider scumbags like Don DiFranceso, Christie Whitman, and Arlen Specter to be "my own".
ABSOLUTELY! i do not believe anyone who sits in office should be permitted to promote or discourage a vote or voters in either direction! there should be a ban on any seated public office holder (and extending to their family and employees) to making it a fineable offense to make statements or advertise for one candidate or another!!!or in the alternative, they only be permitted to make statements of abosolute fact with the research made available with the advertisement.
the average citizen can make a statement and it carries only the clout of the value of their friendship or relationship with the person(s) to whom they are speaking...however, much like the unsolicited and terribly inappropriate comment made by the dixie chicks (in actuality by their lead singer, Marti) on stage in england...hundreds of thousands and untimately millions hear it. the President making a statement in favor or opposed to a candidate carries even more (of course) weight with the average bear in that it is believed he, meaning the President, knows the facts and he would not tell me something without being able to back it up. HA!
Well, time for you all to show your political animus towards Toomey.
You all won't though, there is an election by you all for hoeffel(Capital D) to win.
You all used Toomey and dropped him, IMO.
"You all used Toomey and dropped him, IMO."
Pat Toomey was/is not "dropped" by any who supported him in the primary. he continues to receive this support and if he chooses to run again in 2010, we along with the then accrued additions to his team will be there, with him, beside and behind him. the race in november requires more immediate attention, however. the election is not "for hoeffel" it is for the protection of the SJC and all of the additional damage he is sure to cause if a 5th term is given him. that is the point. hoeffel, by comparison, is harmless in the big picture. so, given the choices at hand, viable choices of a victor...specter and the resulting 6 years or hoeffel and what he would be capable of accomplishing as a freshman senator, the vote is cast in the booth for hoeffel, in our minds for kyl (as next in line for SJC), and in our hearts against specter.
Bull$hit. You actually think that douchebag Don DiFrancesco was supportive of the Schundler campaign? You must be on crack.
Could you tell or convey that to ray and his merry band of merreymen, as they go against Toomey's own words about hoeffel, and promote the Sheriff of Nottingham, joe hoeffel.
Last time I checked, Guiliani and Bush weren't Jersey Republicans.
And yet both of them very publicly supported Schundler.
Uh jeff, Bush and Guiliani are the party "establishment"(according to ray's radical 60's vernacular).
But what the hey you are in age in your late 20's and in a 1960's type of mode, especially with your previous support of Geroge Soros on FR(i.e George Soros being the Daddy Warbucks of the Libertarian party pro-marijuana/drug cause).
You know the George Soros, that Hillary butt kissed yesterday.
It must kinda of piss you off that your words betray you, IMO.
Oh well, at least I can sleep at night.
"Could you tell or convey that to ray and his merry band of merreymen, as they go against Toomey's own words about hoeffel, and promote the Sheriff of Nottingham, joe hoeffel."
did i miss a statement of Toomey's? maybe it's my old age kicking in...what were his "own words about joe hoeffel" that somehow imply that it is better to re-elect a known advocator of liberal ideas, who is quite comfortable with killing babies, be they by way of a "mother" (and that term is used loosely, as no true mother would do such a thing), or the creation of babies in labs (ultimately making human life a commodity - next we can just "donate" babies, saving the tax dollars it takes to clone???), among the many, many off the conservative path proposals he has cast a vote in favor of? i think not. unless, as i said, i missed a statement of Toomey. if so, please share it with me. it would be interesting reading.
Obviously you did. Toomey endorsed Specter in his primary night speech.
"Obviously you did. Toomey endorsed Specter in his primary night speech."
that was not the entire question...i will get a copy of the concession speech and see if i can find "Toomey's own words about hoeffel" that we should be drawn and quartered for the strength of conviction to look beyond the surface of hoeffel or specter winning in november to the fallout and make a real effort in damage control.
i will now take my leave of this thread as it has become a series of personal comments toward individuals rather than what i thought to be an exchange of information between intelligent, educated, conservative adults.
good day to all!
Sheesh, please can the "true conservative" drama queen political crap, ok. Your gig is up.
Toomey endorsed Specter over hoeffel. I surmise it pisses those of you working behind the computers at the DNC basement.
You're jealous that I'm young and good looking.
and in a 1960's type of mode, especially with your previous support of Geroge Soros on FR(i.e George Soros being the Daddy Warbucks of the Libertarian party pro-marijuana/drug cause).
A.)I can't stand the Libertarian Party.
B.)You, sir, are the one shilling for Soros-funded (R)len, not I.
I apologize for the bad language. The '01 Jersey gubernatorial race is one topic that gets me steamed.
My point was that it was the Jersey GOP that screwed over Bret, not the RNC.
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