Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Party over Principle?
That is the $64,000.00 question.
This past Friday morning, Arlen Specter was at a town hall meeting in Ross Township (suburb north of Pittsburgh PA). According to Specter staffer Justin Lokay, this was at the suggestion of Lou Nudi, the Ross Committee Chairman.
There were about 35 people in attendance including the Senator and 5 or 6 staffers and interns. Also there was Congresswoman Melissa Hart, State Senator John Pippy, former Hart staffer and 16th state house district candidate Pat Geho, former row office candidate Becky Toomey (oh, the irony, but she is still the prettiest, and my favorite Specter supporter), Lou Nudi, as well as some various other local committee people. Arriving late as usual was State Representative Jeff Habay. More on him later.
I arrived shortly before the meeting started and checked to see if I was on the PNG (persona non grata) list, but was welcomed in, much to my surprise because I have been barred from previous events. I sat and listened to how conservative values were important to Arlen, how much he enjoys being around G.W.Bush, and how we must defeat the Democrats.
This is a pretty stock speech when he tries to court Republicans. Sadly too many pubbies have short memories and actually believe Arlen when he speaks. He invoked the name of his recent challenger, Pat Toomey and says that he enjoys his support because the Dem candidate is so bad. Yada, yada, yada . . .
He then tried to ingratiate himself by mentioning the names of several people in the crowd. There names were conveniently written on the cue card in his hand. The whole thing was a sad charade, but that didn't stop many from sucking it up. I don't know if they were all die hard supporters or simply supporting the "R" against the horrible "D" that looms ahead if we don't support Arlen.
He then 'yielded' to Melissa Hart. She yucked it up with him for a moment (Think Sonny and Cher, except that Sonny was the conservative, not Cher.) before he stepped aside. About now, there should have been a commercial break, but they continued anyway. Melissa then spoke in glowing terms of Arlen and how important it was to put Arlen into office so that he could chair the Judiciary Committee and help get Bush's judicial nominees approved. She cited the brave defense of former PA Attorney General Mike Fisher when some Democrats posed some minor opposition to Mike's approval. Thank God, Arlen was there to save the day and he convinced the Dems not to block him. BTW, Fisher was supported in his quest for the bench by his recent opponent for the Governor's office - Democrat Governor Ed Rendell. Gee, that must have been a tough fight, Arlen.
What no Borking of Fisher? Don't worry, if Mike starts to make some sound judgements, you can bet that Arlen will apologize like he did after fighting for Clarence Thomas.
Melissa was about 3 minutes into her praise when I just couldn't take it any longer. There she was defending the man that has been pissing on us for years and she was calling it rain. I walked out. On the way out, I said to her brother that I just couldn't stand the BS.
I stayed outside for the remainder of the meeting. I missed the Q and A session, but was told that there was only one tough question asked and that Arlen spent about ten minutes addressing it. The question may have hit a nerve, but I doubt that he will do anything more than pay lip service to it.
Some good news. There was some who expressed continued opposition to him despite coming to be convinced that they should now be supporting him.
I did tell Melissa's aide that I was not alone in my displeasure with her support of Arlen. She may or may not care, but I am sure that I am quite right in my assessment. She is putting the party before any principle she ever espoused and this will cost her later.
Another person that I engaged was Rep. Habay. He arrived only after I had left the meeting and was outside for about 15 minutes. He approached me as he entered the building and I greeted him with a snide remark that he resembled a man that I used to know and told him that I was disappointed in his support for Arlen. He told me that Arlen helped him early in his 'career' (God, I hate that word when applied to politicians.) and that he was repaying the favor. (Doesn't the mob do favors now for favors in the future too?) I told him that that is what happens when you get into bed with the wrong people. He started getting testy at that point (I have to keep the BAD in badray, ya know) and retorted that he wasn't in bed with anyone, but that he would be glad to sit down and discuss the issue with me. I said OK, but he needed to dig himself out of a big hole. Walking away, he said that he was very comfortable in his position. I thanked him for telling me what I needed to know as he turned the corner (more than metaphorically?).
Just before Arlen came out, I spoke to County GOP Chairman Rich Stampahar and he tried to convince me that Specter was the man to support. His pleas fell on deaf ears, but they were overheard by an intern of Specter's who wimpily came over to tell me that this was a private event and asked me not to create a disturbance. I replied only that I was talking to people that knew me and approached me and wasn't talking to any one else. Can you imagine anyone thinking that I would cause a disturbance? LOL Not me, I'm too shy.
On the way out, Arlen either didn't recognize me or thought that I went over to the dark side and was now a supporter. He approached me to shake my hand, but I politely declined. I reserve my handshake for those that I respect.
Maybe I'm just not a 'good republican'. Maybe I'm an 'unappeasable'. Maybe I am a purist. I've been called all of these things and more. And worse.
What I do know is that I cannot support this man. Not for party loyalty, not even for the Senate majority (we do not effectively have it now because of people like Specter). I also know that it is not out of bitterness or hatred. It's just principle. He doesn't believe the things that I believe. He doesn't value the things that I value. His vision of America is not my vision.
This November, a vote for Democrat Joe Hoeffel is a vote to put a true conservative, a true Republican in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I'm voting for Joe.
Ray Horvath
Badray, it just seems to me like your plan is parlimientary maneuvering. It is a good plan and I sense that you are concerned with the long term fate of the GOP, which is good since most politicians, pundits and media are focused on the sound bite and short term fix for problems that require a real long term soultion.
Yet, I think we have to put off the Conservative backlash for now. I know I sound like a wimp and a BUsh-Bot but can't we wait until after the election to start the civil war withi the GOP?
Now, if I were there in PA, my own way of arriving there would be along the lines of my post 275.
You are couragous in your stand...even if I would not go to the lengths you are going to go to...and even if others cannot see or grasp the seriousness of the situation from your perspective or the dangers of such a sapper within the gates as Specter. Just always try and temper your actions with the wisdom that speaks to your heart from above as you make this couragous stand.
Unfortunately, we are in a position politically within our country where there are very few clear and obvious paths. We are too far down the road as a nation in apathy, the culture of death, political correctness, self gratification and lasciviousness to allow for a clear view amidst all of the smoke and distraction.
But above it all, the clear view is still there, and there is One who holds that view at all times. The outcome will ultimately rest on our ability as individuals and as a people to get back to that perspective.
I beleive, after all of my travels and involvement in various activities that we shall. There are still enough good people in this nation who understand these principles that ultimately the Hand of Providence will support us...we just may have a very difficult row to hoe between now and then.
II Chron 7:14
IMHO, that scripture reference is a good tag to add to harpseal's Yorktown message.
Corrected sentance.
Am I wrong or isn't Specter also in support of the ICC ?
But look at the 2nd amendment voting records. Hoeffel is 100% anti-gun, Specter is only 14% anti-gun.
Specter is solidly pro-self defense and the right to personal protection. Hoeffel would happily follow England's lead and ban personal gun ownership including hunting rifles.
Thank you, Ray. Your words are much appreciated, considering their source.
Good night, all. And thank you for a most interesting exchange of ideas on this thread today.
You are absolutely correct.
If I found myself in the PA position, I think would move, within 30 days of election day, to one of the swing states where my vote could really count. Then I'd move back and fight for Toomey and against voter fraud. I am convinced that Specter, or his supporters, manipulated the Toomey vote tally, and that they will equally manipulate the Hoeffel vote tally. Just watch (especially Bucks County).
Voting for a Democrat is not an option. Debasing words like "principles" is a tactic that the Liberals employ all the time. The next Administration will likely nominate two or more Supreme Court Justices and the next Senate will or will not conform them. The Left uses the Judiciary to legislate from the bench and itis getting worse by the day. If you help to empower the Democrats, then you are part of the problem.
conform = confirm
Well, that bit of news just ruined my day.
A year ago I predicted a 4 or 5 seat pickup and that was before considering this. So accounting for a Specter loss, I'm still looking at 3 or 4 seats. If I'm half wrong, we still pick up 1 or 2. I have seen no expectation whatsoever anywhere from anyone, even the DNC, that the Dems will gain ground. If they continue their present shenanigans, they'll be losing seats.
On HR 1794, as bad as it was, and despite Hoeffel's vote against it, it passed 303 to 132? Not even close. The worse they make their offerings, the less likely it is to get passed.
I know that this scenario is not what I am suggesting will happen, but assume the worst. Say we lose the majority. Now riddle me this:
If the pubbies can't get anything done now while we have the majority, why is everyone so afraid that if the dems have a slim majority that our world will crash and burn? How will they be able to accomplish anything? Anything that the Senate does must still be approved by the House and signed by the President, right?
Politicians play on our fears that someone worse is out there and that we better vote for them or else. They all do it. Let's call Specter's bluff. We know what he is. If he changes, it will only be for the worse.
I wouldn't classify you as either. It's not an easy or pleasant thing to contemplate and it requires work later on to remove the dem that we just put in.
But at least you do understand the significance of the situation. I've been talking about this since just before the primary and when most people heard it they thought that I was kidding. When I explained it in more detail and gave them time to mull it over, many came back and agreed that I was right.
As to a civil war within the party, the sooner the better. I'm serious. We have been sold a bill of goods by the RINOs. Adding people to our tent who don't share our values does not advance the conservative cause. It only serves to dilute our message and increase the chances of electing liberals.
The same people who push to elect Specter are the same ones that fret over other RINOs bailing out in a close vote. Hello!
We can't keep waiting to remove those who are working to subvert our values and our rights.
I have to disagree with you on Specter's gun voting record. The only gun group to have EVER endorsed him is the NRA. They did that even after he voted for some of the most vile anti gun legislation to go through the Senate. The bad mouthed him in their own magazine and this time around, they endorsed him again because he was the incumbent. The JPFO didn't endorse him. GOA didn't endorse him. RKBA.com wouldn't endorse him. My local gun rights group, FOAC, has never endorsed him.
Recently in another town hall meeting, he admitted that he erred when he voted for the 93 AWB because it violated our 2nd Amendment rights and didn't not have any effect on crime. Yet, a minute later when I pressed him on it and asked whether he would vote for it again if it came up as part of an 'important must pass' package, he said yes almost before I finished the question. He will vote for any gun control measure if he can find some political cover for doing so.
(I also believe that the recent gun legislation votes were more for show than anything else. Everyone got to record a vote that would make their constituents happy and no one had to do anything substantial.)
He will not even acknowledge the true purpose and reason for the 2nd Amendment and only gives lip service to any other aspect of gun ownership.
Removing Specter eliminates his liberal influence from the committee that okays the judges or did you miss that part?
The GOP will retain numerical control of the Senate. The question is whether the have what it takes to actually run it.
Great way to put it! Specter is the ULTIMATE RINO. He must be targeted for defeat.
On most occasions I would agree with you. But not when we are talking about an ULTIMATE RHINO like Specter. We've had to tolerate him for 24 years. It's time for him to go.
If the voters of PA agreed with you, he would not win primaries or elections. It's the voters....
The GOP will retain numerical control of the Senate.
You have no way of knowing that. The GOP could lose control of the Senate tonight if there is a switch, or a resignation, or a death, etc.
The question is whether the have what it takes to actually run it.
Just don't do anything that will put the Democrats in control.
Hillary backed Joe Hoeffel. Nothing more needs to be said.
Unfortunately, that won't work. After you've voted you have essentially no leverage with the party power brokers. If you want to increase the conservative influence within the party, you must do it by using your vote against those who are working against conservative values. If you don't do it now, when we have little or no chance of losing the Senate you'll never do it, you'll (the rhetorical "you," not you personally) just continue to complain how the party elite never pays any attention to you while you continue to vote as they dictate. The very same thing has marginalized black voices within the Democrat party.
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