Posted on 04/30/2004 9:40:37 PM PDT by Destro
Some marines angry over deal to pull out of Fallujah
CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) Apr 30, 2004
A decision to let former members of Saddam's army handle security in Fallujah has infuriated some of the US Marines who pulled back from the powderkeg city after weeks of violent battles. "Now it's going to get worse," said Lance Corporal Julius Wright, 20, one of the marines who withdrew from positions on the frontlines of the embattled Iraqi city that had been under a US siege since April 5.
The marines started a gradual withdrawal to a wider perimeter Friday as the first 200 members of the new Fallujah Brigade moved into parts of the city.
US commanders hope the Iraqi force, made up mainly of former members of ousted dictator Saddam Hussein's disbanded army, will be able to restore some form of law and order to Fallujah, a city partly controlled by anti-coalition forces.
Senior US officers acknowledge they are not fully convinced the deal will work out, and that Marines are prepared to retake their frontline positions if it doesn't.
Many of the grunts, on the other hand firmly believe the idea is doomed.
"Honestly, I don't think they're going to be able to do it," said Corporal Elias Chavez, 28.
"We had the insurgents cordoned off, they couldn't go anywhere, we had a chance to get them."
"Now they can flee wherever they want, and we're still going to have to deal with them," said Chavez, expressing doubts the new force, largely made up of Fallujah residents, would apprehend anti-coalition fighters.
"A lot of them have ties to anti-coalition forces," he said in reference to the Fallujah Brigade.
Colonel John Coleman, chief of staff of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said it is not necessarily a bad thing having some of the more moderate insurgents switch sides. "We'd actively reach out to those people," he told reporters at Camp Fallujah, the main marine base just outside the city.
Some of the grunts who camped out for weeks in abandoned factories and warehouses on the outskirts of the powderkeg city, coming under fire daily, feel they spilt blood in vain.
Scores of Americans died in fighting in Fallujah, which also killed hundreds of Iraqis.
Now that the marines are pulling out without having defeated the insurgents, the deployment "was a waste of time, of resources and of lives," said Chavez.
"Everyone feels the same way, especially those who know someone who was killed," he said.
Wright agreed.
"We pulled out when we should of went in."
A: Saddam is a murderous a$$hole -- our president isn't.
I really do not realish the prospect of leaving my house this morning and being forced to defend the flag to my neighbors here in Germany as I have vigorously done since long before this war.
Get a grip on reality, Nathan.
The Marines are not "bugging out".
"Bugging out" means an unorganized and forced retreat.
The cordon around Fallujah is still in place. While the liberal press is describing this as a "retreat", the Marine Corps is describing this as a "repositioning". In other words, the jihadis inside of Fajullah are not going anywhere.
During the Gulf War, U.S. AWACS encountered two Iraqi fighters but the AWACS ordered U.S. fighters in the area to hold their fire. Instead, the AWACS guided a Saudi pilot to the Iraqi fighters and he splashed both Iraqi fighters. The incident made the Saudis a part of Gulf War One and strengthened the coalition.
The Iraqis are now being given a chance to participate in the dirty work of liberating their own country.
Right now, Fajullah is encircled with a five foot high berm manned by U.S. Marines with AC-130 Spectre gunships flying overhead. The insurgents are still trapped like rats in the Golan slums section of the city.
Whether U.S. Marines or Iraqis undertake the the role of bait to draw enemy fire to reveal enemy positions and unleash AC-130 strikes will not change the fact that the Iraqi insurgents are dead men walking.
In regards to the torture, it is inexcusable and the U.S. military is prosecuting the individuals involved.
In regards to your German neighbors, you can ask them if the individuals responsible for Christalnacht or the subsequent Holocaust were ever prosecuted by German military authorities before Germany's defeat in April, 1945.
The reasons are obvious and I find it a bit curious that no one is addressing them directly (that I'm seeing). This isn't about "world opinion" or even politics, per se, it's entirely about the fact that we don't have enough forces in Iraq to handle simultaneous uprisings in Ramadi, Tikrit, Samarra, and Baghdad to go along with Falluja ... and probably Najaf, Karbala, Al Kut, Nasiriyah, and perhaps Basra on top if that. In other words, it's about the fact that we don't have enough forces to contain a downward spiral of rebellion.
The general idea here is to keep things at no worse than a low simmer until Nov 2, and then all hell can 'safely' break loose..
But, hey!, you never know. Maybe the plans which haven't worked before (we already tried pulling out of Fallujah before, which is why we had to try and go back in there in the first place) will suddenly start working eventually..
That bears repeating!
You, Squantos, were pinged to this post by B4Ranch along with others which included Travis.
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To: Travis McGee; Squantos; river rat; archy; glock rocks; Pete-R-Bilt; Happy2BMe
"Now that the marines are pulling out without having defeated the insurgents, the deployment "was a waste of time, of resources and of lives," said Chavez."
11 posted on 04/30/2004 9:59:56 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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Why the poster decided to ping individuals who are certainly not defeatists, I do not know.
Maybe he agreed with the sentiment in the post or maybe he did not and wanted to call your attention to it.
I pinged everyone he pinged to his post and made my editorial comment about the Corporal's comments with the generic "we".
IMHO, Corporal Chavez declared defeat to a news media reporter. His words are now being used to imply a defeat of the U.S. Marine Corps and sow doubts about his Marine commanders when, in fact, forces are being repositioned and the battle is not yet over. In short, Corporal Chavez's mouth is not helpful to the success of the Marine Corps' mission in Fajullah.
I repeat my opinion that Corporal Chavez should "wait until the battle is over before jumping on the bandwagon and declaring defeat".
If and when the Iraqi General and his Battalion remove the remaining resistance in Golan, who do you think will have won the war of Fallujah? -- while you look at pictures.
I think you mean fully engage as opposed to containment. My point was to contain rather than engage..right now, and letting the US media pick at it. Stave off the battle now and win the war.
"The general idea here is to keep things at no worse than a low simmer until Nov 2, and then all hell can 'safely' break loose..."
Yes, you are right. The Iraqi nation will be stronger and all hell WILL break loose...JDAMS and MK82, Abrams and 105mm, Apaches and Spectres. You get the point?
Have some optimism, alot of this is played in backrooms. The Shiites are jockying for a larger seat at the table. The Coalition will cave and Iran might have a say minority Iraqi politics. That is game international relations. But it will be a STABLE US ALLLY in the region.
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