Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[moondoggie]

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

[SC Swamp Fox]

Here is the Navy Unit Citation I received on the USS Saratoga in 1986. That signature looks familiar.

[kaehurowing]

This is the answer on Hyland:

Admiral John J. Hyland 30 Nov 1967 - 05 Dec 1970

According to this site:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:i2KsIRT-pmgJ:www.history.navy.mil/seairland/appenb.htm+admiral+hyland&hl=en

[Velveeta]

Thanks, but the credit really goes to Moondoggie for catching the discrepancy.

[eastforker]

OK guys, listen up. You can go to any store outside the gate of any military instalation and buy any medal you want along with the ribbon,get caught wearing it without written authorization and it is a courtmartial for ya, but anybody can buy any medal.

[Maigrey]

I figured you, if you weren't on here, would be quite interested in knowing about it.

Kudos to you and Mike. Just tell us later how his schnoz looks. (j/k)

[kabar]

The system doesn't work that way. There is a defined approval process for awards. You don't go shopping around for signatures. The higher the award, the higher the approval authority. This has to be for replacement medals or a response to claims that he never received the medals. Kerry has to provide more information on this.

[MJY1288]

Military Medals can be replaced very easily. When my Father passed away 2 years ago I requested all of his Military records and an explanation of the abbreviations in the "Medals" row on his DD214. I was able to get replacements for all his medals and put together a Medals Plaque for my older brother who cared for our father while Alzheimer's slowly took him away.

I had most of his original Citations, but was missing a few, I was told that they had no copies of the original Citations, just the letters of recommendation. They told me that I could get frame-able new Citations though. I would conclude that the signature on such a Citation must come from a current Commander. This might explain the John Lehman Signature on Kerry's Citation's

[Ramius]

My God, I didn't notice that both the Silver and Bronze stars were signed by Lehman. Maybe he really did throw his medals away and got new ones.

The actual physical medals themselves are not the problem. You can buy them at the post exchange or by mail order. Lots of people buy additional duplicate medals and/or ribbons to wear on various different uniforms. It's the citation authorizing them to be worn that is really at issue.

[Ethyl]

Is this the same John H Chafee who is a senator???

Don't know, but the current senator chafee is lincoln, his dad was in there before. Rhode Island Senators, so I would bet that they would give the Mass. Senators any thing they want. They were and are both RINOS.

[Mo1]

These are the official, signed paperwork copies written to officially "award" the medal.

My question is .. is it the "original" or is it from a request for a replacement medal???

If it's a copy from the replacement medal .. that could explain why Lehman's name is on it

I can't pull up the document to see .. there must be an over load on the site or something

[commish]

Ok, then Hyland signing the Cert is definately correct.

INteresting though that he has Certificates from both Zumalt (Vietnam Commander) and Hyland (CINCPAC).

All the awards I have recieved in the Air Force, there has only been ONE Certificate. Then in addition to those, Kerry gets Certificates signed by SECNAV right before he starts his Senate Campaign.

I think the answer to all of this is Kerry was Bumping his records to make them look more impressive.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Again _ He received the medals - regardless of what medals he threw over the fence later.

these are the OFFICIAL paperwork citations justifying officially the physical medal.

Two different things!

The paperwork DOES NOT change - regardless of how many times you "lose" the physical medal - at least, not unless you're a Senator trying to gussy up your record for your record.

WHICH NOBODY SEES..

Until now, he has NEVER released these records.

This has revealed private changes in the guy's PRIVATE Navy records that NOBODY else in the world cares about!

(Except John Kerry.)

NOBODY else ever disputed that he received medals in Vietnam! NOBODY ever cared WHO signed the awards.

(Except John Kerry.)

Now, WHY did John Kerry work so hard to change HIS OWN records????????????????

[William Tell]

kabar said: "I don't know the regulations on who must approve the awarding of the Silver and Bronze Stars, but I find it hard to believe that SecNav must approve them. "

The signatures on the certificate represent the "recognition" of the award and, no doubt, bear no relation to the level of approval required. The Commendation Medal I received was approved by my company commander. Such awards were common enough that there was probably little review above company level. The certificate was "signed" by a brigadier general and the Secretary of the Army.

For a Silver Star award for valor in combat, there may be a much higher level of scrutiny for approval.

[Ramius]

That's an interesting angle.

[Interesting Times]

I don't find any reference to Kerry's Bronze Star in his Senate testimony on April 22, 1971, though Senator Symington brings up the Silver Star and the three Purple Hearts.

[commish]

This has to be for replacement medals or a response to claims that he never received the medals.

I agree. I am saying he requested the Replacements because he knew they would be signed by SECNAV, thereby allowing him to show that his Medals came from the Secretary of the Navy.

I have been in the AF for 22 years, all my awards are one certificate, signed by (As you said) the awarding authority for that Award.

[Mo1]

Yes your right .. medals can be replaced easily

I suppose Kerry's DD214 would give a better explaination as to why John Lehman's name is on it

[Robert A Cook PE]

NO!

A replacement medla DOES NOT change teh award.

These awards were RE-TYPED and RE-SIGNED by VERY high-ranking admirals and SecNav's SPECIFICALLY to make Kerry "feel" better about his Vietnam service.

That nobody else, anywhere else in the world, was disputing or even ALLOWED to see!

[TEXOKIE]

bump

[kabar]

Not really. The original citations were already there. You can buy the ribbons, but in my 8 years in the Navy, I never found a place where you could buy the actual medals, except for minatures. I would assume that in order to get replacement medals, you need not only the original citation but also the signature of the current authority. The citations are exactly the same.