Thoughts on border control

Vanity | April 17, 2004 | Doug Loss

[Doug Loss]

I was just talking to another volunteer in our Pat Toomey for US Senate campaign here in Pennsylvania, and the discussion turned to President Bush's immigration reform and border control proposals. Neither of us were particularly happy with the proposals, but neither of us had much better ideas, either. But in talking it out, we came up with what I think is an intriguing idea that I'd like to get some of your thoughts on. Here it is.

It seems obvious to us that short of erecting a DMZ across our entire southern border we're not going to be able to stop the flow of people coming into the country from Mexico. While some may think that a desirable response to the problem, realistically it will never happen.

So we're going to have people coming in. How should we approach this? Currently, there is (I think) a quota on how many people are legally allowed to immigrate each year from each country. And the right to legally immigrate isn't all that easy to obtain and takes a fair amount of time to get, which is why so many cross the border illegally.

Here is our idea. When any foreign national comes across the border at a regular crossing, they are interviewed by US border guards. They're asked, "Do you intend to become a US citizen and to reside in the US permanently?" If the answer is yes, they are put into a program of citizenship training (which would include regular checks to ensure that they are working toward citizenship) and let in. Yes, I know, this would eliminate immigration quotas. Folks, those don't mean anything anyway. This way, we would get them working toward becoming full-fledged Americans rather than a shadow population of illegals.

If they answer no, they would be asked, "Do you intend to work in the US for a limited time?" If they answer yes to this, they would be let in under a guest worker program similar to what the President proposed. Let's say it ran for a three year period. If during that period they decided to become a US citizen, they could start attending citizenship classes and convert their status to the first one mentioned here.

If they answer no to the work question, they would have to show a tourist visa (or obtain one from the interviewer, since we're letting everyone in anyway) for a limited time, or perhaps get a day pass if they just have some short-term business to conduct in the US.

The thrust of this proposal is that we will have these people coming in no matter what we do. I think it would be better to have them come through regular crossings and be documented and pushed toward becoming true American citizens rather than having a large group of frightened, illegal, non-Americans hiding in the recesses of our society.

I expect to get some pretty emphatic rejections of this idea, but I hope to get some thoughtful responses too. Let's hear from you!

[umgud]

The reason our borders are not under control is that they are nothing more than a long gauntlet. If the entrant makes it past the gauntlet, he is quite literally, home-free. Once inside, he/she most likely will not be deported. This has to change.

[Mr. Mojo]

While some may think that [a DMZ across our entire southern border] a desirable response to the problem, realistically it will never happen.

Considering that tens of thousands of "special interest aliens" - aliens from countries with known ties to terror like Libya, Pakistan, and Iran - have crossed our borders illegally since 9/11, it should damn well happen. And if a few of these illegal Islamic "willing workers" decide to take up the Jihadist cause - far from an unreasonable assumption - and successfully pull off a terrorist attack on the order of 9/11, the American people will demand that the "unrealistic option" (of militarizing the borders) be seriously considered.

[jocon307]

"Once inside, he/she most likely will not be deported. This has to change."

Yes, you are correct. IF we would just start quickly and methodically deporting, or re-patriating if you prefer that word, illegal immigrants upon discovery, it would vastly reduce the number of people who come here illegally.

We probably also need to amend the Constitution so that children born in this country to foreign nationals are not by birth US citizens.

Obviously Bush should have closed the borders after 9/11, but as he is great booster of the Mexicans, he failed to do so. It's ok, we must re-elect him anyway; but I'd like to hear some one ask JF'inK how he feels about immigration (legal and not) in these times of a "collapsing" economy. I'd really, really, really, like to see him put on the spot about that.

[DoughtyOne]

While you concede the border situation, the fact still remains that a nation without border control IS NOT A NATION.

We have Iraqis, Chinese and a whole host of other foreign nationals coming across that border.

We have a leadership that actually thinks a FTAA agreement would be a good thing. All the while the decisions that govern this nation are being parcelled out to one organization after another.

We people flooding in who have no loyalty whatsoever to the United States, and have no intention of EVER showing it loyaty.

I don't think much of your plan.

[TomasUSMC]

I prefer:

When any foreign national comes across the border at a regular crossing, they are interviewed by US border guards. They're asked, DO YOU SPEAK ARABIC? Because you are being sent to Iraq!

[TomasUSMC]

We can't deport anyone if we don't have borders that stop them from coming back.

That is priority one. Borders that stop illegals. Then when we start catching illegals we keep them here working on the mojave desert canal project for 5 years or send to Iraq to drive trucks.

[jocon307]

"DO YOU SPEAK ARABIC? Because you are being sent to Iraq!"

ALLAH AKBAR! Or whatever, good idea!

My boss & I had our plan for the middle east after 9/11, we were going to take over Saudi Arabia and staff the oil fields with any willing Mexican.

I still think it was a good plan.

[hedgetrimmer]

Bush did not close the border for a very specific reason.

This document also partially explains what is going on in the US economy.
***

This growing interdependence plainly has domestic U.S. consequences for such matters as immigration policy, cultural identity, and electoral politics; such changes are already in train. Vicente Fox has called for open borders and free labor mobility on the EU model between Mexico and the U.S. Although that goes too far for current American opinion, President Bush is on record as favoring a more generous immigration policy. His administration has sought to extend amnesties to illegal Latin American immigrants in the U.S. And he has asked a task force to examine the virtues of a temporary U.S. "guest worker" program for Mexican workers. All of these signs point ultimately to a single U.S.-Mexican market with full labor mobility and, as the FTAA expands to cover all Latin America, to a much broader version of the same thing.

Bush has also sought to help this process along by making the U.S. culturally hospitable to Latino immigrants — opposing "English First" laws and endorsing the argument that the U.S. is no longer united by a common culture and language but bilingual and multicultural. In the course of assuming the leadership of a continent divided mainly between Hispanic and Anglophone traditions, the U.S. will adapt to a new identity, one that is in theory multicultural, in practice bicultural:

http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback-osullivanprint090501.html

[boris]

"The thrust of this proposal is that we will have these people coming in no matter what we do. I think it would be better to have them come through regular crossings and be documented and pushed toward becoming true American citizens rather than having a large group of frightened, illegal, non-Americans hiding in the recesses of our society."

Put me in charge and I'll have it stopped in one year.

You may not like the means; some will call them 'draconian'--but I guar-un-tee they would work.

Yeah, the Constitution might have to be suspended, martial law imposed, or a few Amendments passed.

But I could--if in charge put an END to the plague of locusts from the South.

If **I** can do it, it can be done. QED.

--Boris

[tiki]

My thought is that they dropped the ball when they allowed amnesty before. It forced illegals beyond the border into the heartland and it would be near impossible to fix it now.

As far as keeping the borders shut down tight, I don't think anyone out East realizes just how open it is. My sister-in-law and I drove the Anapra road yesterday along the border of Mexico and she marvelled that there was so much undeveloped, raw land. There aren't enough BP agents in the country to keep it patrolled. We have so many illegals coming over that the BP can't come and get them because they are too busy getting others.

The only real solution is to support a true democratic republic in Mexico and hope that they would improve their society and they'd want to stay home.

[B4Ranch]

Pat Toomey will make an excellent Senator for the next administration.. He has no idea about the current costs to taxpayers of illegal aliens in the US and appears to think that bringing more in will stem the flow.

Remind him that our current laws say we must allow all children a seat in a classroom. If the childs parents meet the poverty limits we will feed these kids a breakfast, a lunch and an after school snack. We will also treat these children and their parents free of charge at our local hospitals for everything from splinter removal to heart surgery. If the family fits the within the rules we will give them housing assistance or even free housing. Of course the food programs are open to them also.

A question for Mr. Toomey:
Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice?

You may also be interested in this post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1119203/posts?page=16#16

[knarf]

"My boss & I had our plan for the middle east after 9/11, we were going to take over Saudi Arabia and staff the oil fields with any willing Mexican."

Holy Frijole's, Batman .... hooda'thunkit?

What a terrific idea!

[I got the rope]

Your assuming illegals are going to ask to come in?

The problem with Mexicans coming across is the Mexican Government. Why don't we have some type of Marshall Plan for Mexico? We need to rid ourselves of all the Marxist scumbags that are running that country into the ground. The Mexicans (Indians) would not be coming over here if it wasn't so damn bad over there. We should rally Mexican Ex-patriots in this country to go back and declare independence. We could threaten Mexico with the Annexation of it's northern states.

There is already a movement of people in Austin, TX that are thinking this very thing. It may sound far-fetched for some, but the reality is that these Mexicans are proud and miss their homeland. They are tired of the corruption and the drug trade.

[knarf]

The first thought I had, even before I finished reading your idea was ... everything depends on a physical or self-imposed (by the Mexicans ... HAH!) funnel into the US.

The 'wall' is the only way to enforce that.

If China could build a Great Wall in the, I don't remember when, early somethings, with primitive technology and equipment ... why can't we?

[Doug Loss]

Yeah, the Constitution might have to be suspended, martial law imposed, or a few Amendments passed.

Without even knowing your means, I can guarantee you'd start a revolution within this country. Suspend the constitution, impose martial law? And people think my idea is unfeasible!

[jpsb]

"It seems obvious to us that short of erecting a DMZ across our entire southern border we're not going to be able to stop the flow of people coming into the country from Mexico."

Giving up without even tring huh? Personally, I think we should have a fairly open border. Folks from mexico want to come and shop, see a movie, etc. no problem. But comming over to work here, illegally, yea, that's a problem and the EMPLOYERS should be punished, really punished. What ever it takes to make that happen is fine with me.

[Doug Loss]

As far as keeping the borders shut down tight, I don't think anyone out East realizes just how open it is.

That was part of my point. We can't stop the flow. Wouldn't it be better to remove the incentive for illegal crossing and try to get the people who will cross anyway onto a citizenship track? At the least, it would kill the coyote business.

[brityank]

I expect to get some pretty emphatic rejections of this idea, but I hope to get some thoughtful responses too.

Doug =

Tell you what; take all the curtains off your windows (so folks can see what a nice place you have), the locks off you doors (allows free access like your border), and place a 'Welcome' sign on the front walkway in South Williamsport, PA. Let us know what kind of a 'home' you have in a month, if it's still standing.