The "Outsourcing Jobs" myth

Human Events On line ^ | 3/23/04 | Thomas Sowell

[MNJohnnie]

Every political campaign seems to have some buzzword, and this year's buzzword is "outsourcing." Since the economic recovery has not yet reached the stage when new jobs are being created to the extent expected and hoped, the idea that American jobs are being sent overseas has political mileage, whether or not it has much economic substance.

A recent poll of economists by the Wall Street Journal found that only 16 percent of them saw outsourcing as having a significant impact on the over-all job picture. More important, the political remedies being suggested to stop outsourcing are virtually guaranteed to make things worse.

[iconoclast]

Sometimes I wonder how "conservative" freepers really are when I see posts advocating protectionism.

There is nothing historically conservative about free traitors.

[lelio]

FAR MORE IT jobs are lost to automation and centralized administration systems than are lost to outsourcing.

Source?

[AndyTheBear]

Of course outsourcing isn't a problem for the economists, stockholders, and CEO's, and an awful lot of Aholes on FR.

Are you saying that people who haven't lost their jobs to outsourcing are Aholes unless they accept support economic isolatiism?

My wife and I have had our share of tough breaks, and we have been had our own bouts of biterness--an attitude which gained us absolutely nothing.

[SB00]

There's also nothing historically conservative about people relying on government to protect their interests.

[iconoclast]

I work in IT, like the other poster. In fact, I was once a programmer, too.

And when one of these offshore programmers gains experience and maturity and takes over your function, I wouldn't come around here looking for sympathy if were you.

[adam_az]

Source?

Observation from working in the IT industry for 10 years and seeing the effect that the advent of central administration software and more powerful computers (consolidation of admins to servers. Are you going to make the preposterous claim that the advent of more powerful servers and centralized administration software has led to a HIGHER ration of admins to systems?

[adam_az]

Can you back up the claim of post #65 which I was replying to that "MILLIONS of jobs (are) being lost because non-American workers can be had for a fraction of what it costs to pay American workers." Millions? There are only about 10 million IT workers in the US!

[adam_az]

And when one of these offshore programmers gains experience and maturity and takes over your function, I wouldn't come around here looking for sympathy if were you.

Don't worry, I'm not a crybaby.

[Bikers4Bush]

Are you attempting to compare the evolution of technology with outsourcing labor costs?

[iconoclast]

Vulgarity is the last recourse of a loser.

Vulgarity often crops up in the face of obnoxious smugness.

[Bikers4Bush]

"There are only about 10 million IT workers in the US!"

Do you have a source for that number?

[adam_az]

Just want to preserve your post for posterity before it gets deleted for abuse.

You make a perfect democrat, seen things that are not there. You loose. You are making up stuff and passing judgment. I mentioned what happened to me and others in my team as a fact, that off shoring is not a myth; and in this case, it had to do with much cheaper labor, not lack of productivity. I hope the job you hold, or the business you have goes down the tube, and then let some idiot say that it's all a myth.

Now let's review this: I type that off shoring is not a myth and there are 30 programmers I know, who where out of a job due to off shoring for cheaper (slave) labor; therefore, I do not think is a myth. Then, you come up with your bull sh*t. Stick it where the sun don't shine a$$hole.

[lelio]

If we had a static economy then what you say would be true. However IT (that is programming and sys admin) has been a growing field as companies expand.

While I agree that automation can reduce the number of overall people needed for an individual project, its not as if this suddenly came about in the last 3 years causing a quick rise in programmer unemployment. One has to look elsewhere for this reason, and I think it lies mainly in the downturn in the economy and offshoring.

[lelio]

Can you back up the claim of post #65 which I was replying to that "MILLIONS of jobs (are) being lost because non-American workers can be had for a fraction of what it costs to pay American workers." Millions? There are only about 10 million IT workers in the US!

I believe the poster included jobs offshored to China as well. Which is on the order of 2.5M jobs.

[r9etb]

1. They were not "your" jobs, unless you jointly owned the company.

Well, then let's just say that the employers decided to reallocate the job for which they had originally paid him, and outsourced it overseas.

2. The plural form of "anecdote" is not "data."

OTOH, it is data to note that many manufacturing industries have shipped their entire assembly operations overseas, such that certain products are no longer made here. Clothes and shoes are a good example -- try to find athletic shoes or blue jeans that are made in the US. Any that are still made here are the rare exception.

One can argue that it's not a problem, but to claim that "outsourcing" doesn't happen is to deny reality.

[gedeon3]

'It was implicit in the complaint that they should have kept him, instead of his previous employer hiring someone else based on price.'

There is no such implicit complaint, and what I wrote the first time was to clearly point out that offshoring is not a myth. There is no crying, just stating a fact.

[Il Duce]

I type that off shoring is not a myth and there are 30 programmers I know, who where out of a job due to off shoring for cheaper (slave) labor; therefore, I do not think is a myth.

I'm not sure that I understand your position. Please clarify it for me. Do you or do you not feel that the free market ought to determine the appropriate wage for an employee?

I think I often make the mistake of assuming that most people on this forum are capitalists. As I have regretfully seen in posts on anti-trust laws, the FCC, and most particularly free trade, I think most posters are decidedly not capitalists. I would like to clarify your position now.

If you are a capitalist and feel that wages ought to be determined by a free market, then you have to oppose any restrictions on tariffs and non-tariff trade barriers, since those operate to skew the market and produce a non-market result, which is obviously somewhat wasteful.

I think that your response will be something along the lines about how of course you are capitalist, but you are angry about "slave" labor--which you mentioned earlier. This, of course, is just anger because someone is willing to do your job more cheaply than you are willing to do it--but this is exactly what the market seeks--more efficiencies, lower costs, etc.

Of course, there are some cases, as in manufacturing, in which the gov't through labor laws, has prevented the workers from determining their own wage. The answer to this, however, is not to further distort the market by placing trade barriers to overseas products and services, but to eliminate the restrictions on US workers which prevent them from working at their self-determined wage.

Of course, the myth to which the article refers isn't that outsourcing doesn't exist--of course it does, that's rather the point of the free trade policy. The myth is that it is bad.

[lelio]

If you are a capitalist and feel that wages ought to be determined by a free market, then you have to oppose any restrictions on tariffs and non-tariff trade barriers, since those operate to skew the market and produce a non-market result, which is obviously somewhat wasteful.

You do? So you're cool with supplying the communist chinese with money to finance their army? What happens when capitalism and national self interest collide?

[bvw]

Wonderful how spinners like yourself -- who call yourself "conservative" -- are so cavalier with the property of other's entrusted to your care! What property? Why their words and ideas.

Your strawman is a theft, in an "intellectual property" sort of way. Honest conservative folks like myself, and the well-remembered, well regarded, recently departed freeper Harpseal have suggested conservative ideas that would work to stop the offshore BOHICA-ization of Amerian industry.

Are you calling George Washington not "cnoservative" -- or have you just forgotten or scoffed at him too? It was he, as first Predident under our Constitution that raised whhat yo, evidently, would call "protectionist" Federal tariffs.

I suggest you grow up and start acting like an adult, an aupstanding adult capable of being responsible with the goods of other people entrusted to your care.