Engineer wants "intelligent design" taught in schools [Evolution vs. Creationism]

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 04 March 2004 | Eli Kintisch

[PatrickHenry]

Engineer Joe White ought to know an intelligent design when he sees one. By day, on the job at Boeing, White has worked on some of the world's best-built airplanes: the F-15, the F-18, and these days, the C-17 cargo jet.

[PatrickHenry]

Bold and underline font usually added by your humble poster, as are items [in brackets].

[PatrickHenry]

PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[Saturnalia]

Would you ask your dentist for advice on how to treat a heart condition?
Knowledge in one branch of the sciences does not qualify one as an expert in another branch.

That said, why don't we talk about the wonders of pie instead?

[Tax-chick]

I'd like to see bright, energetic people like this gentleman devoting themselves to dismantling the government school system. Their problem is that they think the schools are an educational institution, when actually (read the history) the schools are "intelligently designed" for social control and ideological indoctrination.

[Just mythoughts]

"Their problem is that they think the schools are an educational institution, when actually (read the history) the schools are "intelligently designed" for social control and ideological indoctrination."

Ideological indoctrination, the religion of the left is government, "we are gods" little children, purpose of our "theory of evolution", you will be what you evolve to be.

[general_re]

Their problem is that they think the schools are an educational institution, when actually (read the history) the schools are "intelligently designed" for social control and ideological indoctrination.

Actually, I'd say White totally accepts and embraces the idea that the schools are tools for social control and ideological indoctrination - he just thinks they're doing the wrong sort of indoctrinating, and so he wants to substitute in his preferred sort of ideology.

I'd like to see folks like White devote their energy to dismantling the government monopoly on education too, but the reality is, if that's your goal, he's not really your ally. Instead of using the stick of government schools to hit people over the head with, he thinks it's better used to poke them in the eye. Perhaps someone can convince him that the best idea of all is to put down the stick entirely.

[Physicist]

Knowledge in one branch of the sciences does not qualify one as an expert in another branch.

You don't have to be an expert in evolution to have an opinion on whether it occurred. That said, when one's opinion about a scientific topic is formed and determined by one's particular brand of non-scientific mysticism, the result is...unlikely to be correct, no matter what your expertise.

[Tax-chick]

Interesting point, and one I hadn't considered. I tend to just assume that people would prefer freedom and constitutional government over totalitarian coercion, and that may not be true :-). Totalitarians come in all varieties of political and relgious belief.

On the other hand, I think most people working for "improvements" of whatever kind in the schools just don't realize that it's the system itself that is the problem, not the details of its content.

[general_re]

On the other hand, I think most people working for "improvements" of whatever kind in the schools just don't realize that it's the system itself that is the problem, not the details of its content.

Agreed. But I don't want to sell the man completely short just yet, not in this case. He might simply see the schools as a sort of inevitable evil, and is trying to mitigate that in his own way. If he can be persuaded that it's not inevitable that they must maintain their monopoly, he might come to understand that what he's really doing is essentially perpetuating wrongness by trying to co-opt it and compromise with it. But, of course, compromising with wrongness and co-opting evil institutions is itself objectively wrong. He's at least more likely to be receptive to that argument than a real hard-core leftist would be. Hopefully, anyway ;)

[Tax-chick]

There's a similar situation with the court system ... liberals have used the Federal courts to interfere with with every aspect of state, local, and private activity, so conservatives wind up trying to do the same thing when they object to something that's going on. "Get a Federal court to make them be nice!" Right ends, wrong means. The courts' overactivity is the problem, not the solution.

[whattajoke]

Teachers would teach intelligent design: "The origin of life on earth is inferred to be the result of intelligence directed design and construction...

The state commissioner of education would include intelligent design in standardized tests and develop supplemental material on the subject." Source: Missouri House Bill 911

Ballsiest attempt yet. These guys didn't get the ICR/AiG/etc memo about the new subtle tactics of their movement.

House Bill 911 is aptly named. Education Emergency in Mizzou!

[Rudder]

What's the deal with this guy being an engineer? The article seems to imply, falsely, he's a scientist because he's an engineer. There's not one bit of science in the creationist thingy, and engineers are not realy scientists.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Dr. Cooper could be spending his time more productively. Missouri's Department of Transportation is a mess. Special interests in Jeff City have siphoned off a third of the gasoline tax for non-road building agencies. Cronyism is rampant in the state wildlife agencies.

[RightWingAtheist]

engineers are not realy scientists

Not unless you're Jimmah Carter, according to the media.

[Little Pig]

I agree, not to mention that IMHO the C-17 isn't exactly a triumph of engineering, given that (among other things) its wake turbulence is so violent that multiple C-17s cannot fly in an organized formation because the following planes would be torn apart.

[GeraldP]

>>>and engineers are not realy scientists.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[GeraldP]

>>>That said, when one's opinion about a scientific topic is formed and determined by one's particular brand of non-scientific mysticism, the result is...unlikely to be correct, no matter what your expertise.

I agree, however something similar happens when one's opinion of non-scientific mysticism is formed by one's particular brand of science.

[Rudder]

Of course, one could be both and engineer and a scientist. But the article puts the profession foremost in the title. This is like calling an accountant an economist.

(I know, the two are not mutually exclusive.)

[VadeRetro]

Missouri Association for Creation

Can't be right! Everyone knows ID has nothing to do with creationism. </sarcasm>

[balrog666]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!