Assault Weapon Ban extension PASSES (Senate amendment to gun industry protection bill)

C-Span ^ | 3-2-04 | Sen. Dianne Feinstein D-CA

[Atlas Sneezed]

The vote was:

52 -Aye in favor of extending the ban 47 -Nay opposed to the ban.

[Sender]

As much as I despise the AWB and those who vote for it, I've often thought about where I would draw that 'line in the sand'.

As far as voting goes, passage of the AWB may just cross my line. But the real 'line in the sand' is, when do we stop trying to work within the system? When do we just stop participating in this charade and make a stand?

For me, that would be when ANYONE comes to my door telling me that I must turn in ANY gun that I own, guns that I bought legally and own legally. I am not going to speculate on the outcome of that one, but the line will have been crossed. Someone will back down or be carried off that day.

[Joe Brower]

Please see my post #611. Thoughts, gentlemen?

[Uncle Jaque]

RE:

"I need to pick up an M1A before they run out."

What are ya gonna do when Hillary's thugs come to collect it, eh?

Chains or Blood?

A choice I hope none of us has to make - yet might have to sooner than we think if things keep going the way they seem to be.

When the rule of Law breaks down, as activist Judges and conniving politicians can't seem to wait to do, then anarchy is the inevitable outcome.

And in most cases, anarchy = blood running down the gutters.

These weasels keep it up, and it's gonna get ugly.

[Henrietta]

"what's available has remained pretty much the same. Although prices have gone up on most items."

Prices have gone up on pre-ban stuff, because they aren't making any more of it. What's available has remained pretty much the same, because the pre-ban stuff hasn't worn out yet. Once it does, there won't be any more. And that's the real problem.

[yonif]

Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.

The UN is also a part of it. Also, How is this a good thing?

[Monty22]

bradycampaign.org is hailing this as a victory now, which means they'll try to attach the AWB stuff on something else not so gun-friendly.. gonna be interesting and scary.

[Cboldt]

The bill is dead. The Senate voted against it 90-8

Do you know if/where there is a discussion of the positions of each Senator with regard to each proposed amendment, and the vote on the final bill?

My first impression (my first impressions are often crap) is that some Senators were in favor of the unamended bill (in favor of a flavor of lawsuit immunity), voted for extending the AWB and for the Gun-show provisions, then turned on a dime and didn't want to buy the package deal that they voted in favor of.

[Sir_Ed]

"Already banned in 1934."

Not true. Until 1986 people in many states could own, sell and purchase automatic weapons.

They just had to pass a stringent background check and pay a $200 tax.

They can still do so, just not weapons manufactured after 1986.

I used to be a Class III gun dealer and sold many automatic MP5's, M-16's, AK-47's and the like.

I closed my gun shop many years ago because the paperwork and turnaround by the ATF and FBI got to take soooo long that my customers grew disinterested.

Ed

[BigSkyFreeper]

I see Baucus (D-MT) voted against it, purely for political reasons.

[Dogbert41]

"I will be supporting Bush and the administration.
I will be voting against the Rats and pubs that voted in favor of this legislation, as all of us who support the president will.

This issue is NOT the end all, BE all, MAJOR issue of all time and will not affect any thinking persons view of what Bush stands for and where he is leading this country.

The hyperbole on this thread and others has gone beyond amusing to totally stupid.

I am not the only one, fortunately, who understands and sees the moronic post after post and attempt to bring some sanity to the conversation."

Wirestripper, just where is it the Republicans are leading this country? I'd really like to know, but to be frank, you can't tell me because they themselves don't have a F'ING CLUE! They have their multi-million dollar retirements, they have their free medical care for life, they have their re-elections paid for and almost impossible to battle -thanks to the latest campaign legislation. So tell me, is this country better now than before the Republicans were given the House, the Senate and the Whitehouse by the gun nuts here you so abhore? Because it was us and our money and our work that gave it to them. It was US, not you, you were still getting your ass wiped when we did all the swet and tears.

[Henrietta]

"Equal Justice"

Amicus Brief filed in Michigan affirmative action case, supporting continuance of racist affirmative action policy.


"Freedom of Speech"

Campaign Finance Reform


"Limited Government Power"

The Patriot Act


"Private Property Rights"

Well, he DID lower tax rates, I'll give him that...


"Rule of Law"

Never mind that some of the "laws" are unconstitutional; see above.

[Monty22]

I got corrected on that many times, I should have said 'virtually banned'.

I know you can still get pre-86 ones.

[Texas Federalist]

I can't find a roll call vote for the final bill, but looking at the numbers alone, you would have to be right.

[MrB]

that would be when ANYONE comes to my door telling me that I must turn in ANY gun that I own

It won't happen that way.
They'll "detain" you on some unrelated traffic violation or somesuch while their thugs search your house and remove the "offending items."

Leftist tyrants are cowards. They will not face those from whom they are taking rights and property.

[MineralMan]

"So what do you think we should do? Is it hopeless, should we just turn 'em all in?

I'm hearing a lot of what we shouldn't be doing, but no real suggestions for maintaining our rights. Suggestions?"

From an earlier message, it appears that you are relatively new to firearms. Welcome to the shooting fraternity.

As for suggestions, yes, I have some, and they all involve education. We must educate the public about the need for an armed citizenry. I know that sounds like something that has been going on, but it hasn't, really.

In the past few years, we've heard a lot of rhetoric, but that's not education. On one side, we have a bunch of fraidy cats whining about criminals with "assault weapons." On the other, we have a group of folks who keep saying "out of my cold, dead hands."

In the middle, it's been pretty silent. Yes, there are those who would like to disarm the population, but they're a small minority. There are also those who think that they should be able to own any weapons they desire. They are dismissed by most as nutjobs.

The NRA and GOA and other organizations should be leading this educational process. Sadly, however, they are either too badly organized or dominated by the second group I mentioned to be effective in this education process.

Bottom line is that the education process is failing and the anti-firearms folks are winning. Talk of armed insurrection is worthless. It isn't going to happen, and polarizes the issue even further.

People are afraid of firearms, generally. They don't understand them. They see them being used by criminals, and incidents like Columbine get huge media coverage, even though such situations are rare.

Reasonable voices are shouted down by both extremes. So...what we end up with is what the frightened public wants...no guns at all.

It's a difficult job. Personally, I take every opportunity I can to discuss the issue rationally with people who don't own firearms and who are frightened of them. I've introduced dozens to the shooting sports. I try to tell them that we do need to be armed, for our own protection and to defend ourselves from our enemies. It's a fairly easy sell, really, but you have to do it in a way that doesn't scare folks.

What I do with an interested person who has no firearms experience is take them to my backyard range and let them pop bottle caps with a Crosman pump-up .177 pellet rifle. It's purely a skill thing, and it's amazing how quickly they get excited by hitting the target. No noise. No mess. Just fun.

If they want more, I take them to the local range and have them shoot with a .22 rifle. A little more report, but still a lot of fun. After that, I introduce them to shotguns, using a 20-ga. shotgun and hand-thrown clay birds. You get the idea.

If they're interested in pistol shooting, I can introduce them to that as well.

This all gives me an opportunity to talk about our American traditions of firearms ownership and how it created this nation. By starting slowly and in a non-intimidating way, I make converts who will vote against gun grabbing.

That's my idea. It works on a small scale, with the people I've introduced to firearms. It will work on a larger scale as well, but it takes some time.

[Dane]

Likewise, if it had been vetoed people would have said *shrug* "big deal". But in your view, suddenly the dynamic changes and the vetoed bill becomes a political hot button. Coincidentally, that works to benefit your argument (while defying all logic)

Uh no, if it had been vetoed demos would have gotten out the talking points ("Bush is against reform, yada, yada, yada).

The point being a veto, negative press over a bill people didn't have negative feelings about. Signing, no negative press about a bill people have no negative feelings about and didn't think would affect their daily lives and actually do some good(in people's minds) of getting negative political ads off the air.

Yeah I know it's politcs, but we don't live in a perfect world.

BTW, same thing about the Janet Jackson and Howard Stern controversies. If you are against CFR then you should be against the FCC trying to clean up TV and radio.

I know, I know, negative political ads and what Janet Jackson did are not the same, but people equate negative political ads with what Janet Jackson did. They have the same reaction to both.

[MineralMan]

"I think maybe there should be an American Veteran Party"

Trouble is, you'll find veterans of every political persuasion. They are not a single bloc.

[AreaMan]

Can't you use those QB-8 shells for your shotgun for armor piercing applications? Or are they not available commercially?

[Big Mack]

Well this "gun-happy-goof" doesn't own a center fire semi-automatic rifle. The only AW's I have have flint locks and bayonet lugs. This isn't about pretty or ugly guns. It is about "enough is enough". The whole premise of gun-control is based on lies and misrepresentations. We are pissing into the wind because the media won't allow the truth be told. Just before the vote this morning a rat sen. said"..we need to keep these machineguns out of the hands of criminals." No one called him to task. I have attempted to set the record straight with the local rag and their policy is to balance letters to the editor ( 5 anti-gun to one pro-gun) so they only print letters that have the "rant factor" never the letters that attempt to explain the truth. I have become almost uncaring anymore who rules this country as there isn't a rat's ass difference between (R) or (D). The courts now make the laws and the socialists elitists set the PC curriculum. When the Clintoon was elected, I was so scared I purchased reloading equipment for all of the modern guns(not very many), but haven't loaded any ammo. I have thought about purchasing a Bushmaster or some sort of semi-auto, but haven't done so, don't want a paper trail when they come to pick up everyone's guns. I did buy a 12ga pump in a store once, but lost it when my canoe tipped over on a trip. Never replaced it. So My2Cents, if I sound like a gun-nut so be it. But the truth is I am a constitutional-nut, and after CFR, AWB is my line in the sand.

[Henrietta]

"That's my idea. It works on a small scale, with the people I've introduced to firearms. It will work on a larger scale as well, but it takes some time."

Each one, teach one, right? Thanks for your nice reply. We do need to work on this as individuals. I also think we need to keep beating back the "no-rights" crowd on a national level.

I'm a total absolutist when it comes to my second amendment rights, but I tone it down when trying to convince others who might not be so sure. It's just that here on FR, we absolutists tend to be a little less tolerant of the compromisers, because we feel we've heard enough of that lib spew on the media, and we just don't feel like being "nice" about the further erosion of our liberties, and those who say, "What's the big deal?" when the latest and greatest gun control edict comes down from on high.

Myself, I'm a little weary of explaining why I need a machine gun/assault weapon/short barreled rifle/scary-looking gun. You'd think we should all be past that by now.