The Moslem Conquest (of India)

Our Oriental Heritage | 1936 | Will Durant

[ml/nj]

The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precarious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within. The Hindus ... had failed to organize their forces for the protection of their frontiers and their capitals, their wealth and their freedom, from the hordes of Scythians, Huns, Afghans, and Turks hovering about India's boundaries and waiting for national weakness to let them in. For four hundred years (600-1000 A.D.) India invited conquest; and at last it came.

In the year 997 a Turkish chieftain by the name of Mahmud became the sultan of the little state of Ghazni, in eastern Afghanistan. ... Each winter Mahmud descended into India, filled his treasure chest with spoils, and amused his men with full freedom to pillage and kill ... At Mathrua he took from the temple its statues of gold encrusted with precious stones, and emptied its coffers of a vast quantity of gold, silver, and jewelry; he expressed his admiration for the architecture of the great shrine, judged that its duplication would cost one hundred million dinars and the labor of two hundred years, and then ordered it to be soaked with naphtha and burnt to the ground. Six year later he sacked another opulent city of northern India, Somnath, killed all its fifty thousand inhabitants, and dragged its wealth to Ghazni. ... Sometimes he spared the population of the ravaged cities, and took them home to be sold as slaves. ... Moslem historians ranked him as the greatest monarch of his time, and one of the greatest sovereigns of any age.

Seeing the canonization that success had brought to this magnificent thief, other Moslem rulers profited by his example, though none succeeded in bettering his instruction. ... The first of these bloody sultans, Kuth-d Din Aibak, was a normal specimen of his kind-fanatical, ferocious, and merciless. His gifts, as the Mohammedan historian tells us, "were bestowed by hundreds of thousands, and his slaughters likewise were by hundreds of thousands." ... Another sultan, Balban, punished rebals and brigands by casting them under the feet of elephants, or removing their skins, stuffing these with straw, and hanging them from the gates of Delhi. ... Sultan Muhammed bin Tughlak acquired the throne by murdering his father, became a great scholar and an elegant writer. dabbled in mathematics, physics and Greek philosophy, surpassed his predecessors in bloodshed and brutality, fed the flesh of a rebel nephew to the rebel's wife and children, ruined the country with reckless inflation, and laid it waste with pillage and murder till the inhabitants fled to the jungle. He killed so many Hindus that, in the words of a Moslem historian, "there was constantly in front of his royal pavilion and his Civil Court a mound of dead bodies and a heap of corpses, while the sweepers and executioners were wearied out by their work of dragging" the victims "and putting them to death in crowds." ... Sultan Ahmed Shah feasted for three days whenever the number of defenseless Hindus slain in his territories in one day reached twenty thousand.

[JimSEA]

In addition to Will Durant's monumental work, I particularly enjoyed John Keay's India: A History. Keay is far mor sympathetic to Islam but comes to the same conclusion as Durant. Of particular interest to me were the section on several Mughal Emperors who were fairly benign. Without exception, they were those who drifted away from an Arab / fundamental interpretation of Islam. The Muslims sacked a plundered well but really brought little else.

[ijcr]

Then why do they have a chicken as their national emblem,
velocopide racing as their national sport and soap as their national aversion?
The germanic tribes developed none of these traits. Me thinks we need a DNA test.

[Polybius]

What about Russian lead liberation of Balkans and Russia itself? If West did not oppose it(Crimean War etc), probably Constantinople("Istambul") and coast of Asian Minor("Turkey") would be still Christian today.

Well, for whatever reasons, there is still that little dark green chunk of Islamic Europe in the Balkans.

The defeat of Islam in Spain was complete and the Reconquista was therefore the "most successful" Crusade in Europe.

[Dajjal]

Religion of Peace bump

[CGVet58]

hello Cacique,

you ping center-mass on the central points (that too often are not referred to by many of us...): Gramsci - I wonder how many folks here on freep know of him?... demographic trends; elitist thought, etc...

It is the historical demographic explosion of muslim populations, augmented by our dangerously open borders, that concerns me most. There are currently something between 3 to 8 million muslims in our country, and a strong wahhabi influence/proselytization among our population.

Case in point: our prisons... most muslim converts in prison are black or hispanic, and the wahhabi virus targets these minds - already stunted by violence, drugs, hatred, and/or all other things that go into the making of a criminal - and paints itself as a religion for the colored peoples - Jose Padilla is the classic example. Then, it's but a simple and short step to play upon the racial tensions of the new convert, mix in a little revisionist history salted with 600 years of islamic decay and self-hatred of their cultural failure, and POOF!!! - out comes another brainwashed local kid ready to apply his (already criminally established...) knowledge of violence against the homeland.

A point to consider as we view the muslim intrusion into our own country: Historically, muslim minorities have remained quiet and under the radar until their numbers start approaching roughly 10 percent of the targetted population. This period of relative silence is what they use as proof when they spout their "Islam is peaceful/Jihad is spiritual" bullshit. As mentioned above, the muslim population sits at about 8 million, or roughly 3 percent of the US population. What appears to be different here is that - though it's a smaller percentage, activist noise is already coming out of this group. things like coalescing into a voting bloc (not surprisingly, targetting Bush for defeat); or the constant whining by self-anointed muslim interest groups such as CAIR in attacking all public figures that do not universally paint them in the best light. I've some thoughts on why, but haven't yet seen enough info and will reserve them for later. Still, I'm interested in your take on this.

I wouldn't count the West out yet, though, hermano guerrero... certainly not the United States, or some of the Eastern European Nations. But that is another topic.

Juan
CGVet58

[woofer]

known to some as Charlemagne, was in actuality named Karl der Grosse (Karl the Great).

Hence, the romantic Char le Magne.

[PGalt]

Thanks for this post. History and comments bump!

[ml/nj]

Dubya: Will call Islam a "Religion Of Peace" in public. Will then kick the @$$es of the Islamics who have it coming.

Do you think the Saudis are among those "who have it coming"?

I do. I think they were at the top of the list on September 12, 2001. Where do you think my mother fits on that list? ("Dubya's" gubmint gives her more scrutiny boarding an airplane than it gives to an unshaven towelhead.)

I really hope this becomes a campaign issue. If I had a chance to ask a question, I'd ask what are the three most informative books they've read since 2001 about Islam and what message they've taken from these books.

ML/NJ

[vharlow]

It would seem they have come again into France by other means.

[Jacob Kell]

"The Modern French are a blend of Celt and German tribes."

Also, the French are partly descended from Roman Latin settlers, too.

[VOA]

Do you think the Saudis are among those "who have it coming"?

Some certainly do.
But the broad-brush should be kept in check.
Although I only heard it on an ABC News special by John Miller, the reason OBL has
kidney "disease" is that he his kidneys were damaged by an attempted assassination by
poisoining by Saudi security operatives.
(AFAIK, Miller is maybe just about the only USA reporter who traveled to
interview OBL before 9-11; Miller seems to be a fairly straight-shooter as
mainstream journalists go.)

The House of Saud and the country of Saudi Arabia are in a mess; who knows how long
it will stand?

As an average white-bread sort of American who routinely was asked if I "minded"
extra inspections when going through security BEFORE 9-11...you're talking to someone
who started to disdain air travel before 9-11.
Heck, I'd get the rectal exam...and I never exhibited the "warning signs" that
should have gotten Mohammed Atta and Co. pulled out of line the morning of 9-11
(one-way tickets, bought with cash, etc.)

I used to travel by air about 4-5 times per year before 9-11.
After the Bravo Sierra of the TSA...I travel twice a year, max.
And the airlines/guvmint wonder why the economy has taken so long coming back.

[ml/nj]

Me:
 Do you think the Saudis are among those "who have it coming"?

You:
  Some certainly do.
  But the broad-brush should be kept in check.

Would you have said the same thing about righteous Nazis?

Certainly there were some. Saudi Arabia is a country that tolerates keeping women inside burning buildings so that they might not be seen without their heads covered. Saudi Arabia is a country that finances almost all the mosques here in the US. These are the same mosques that find it difficult to criticize the 9/11 massacre. I sure these folks revere the "great sovereign" Mahmud.

Open your eyes.

ML/NJ

[Cacique]

Remember Kosovo? 100 years ago it was majority Serb until the Serbs allowed Muslim Refugees to settle there. A century later we all know what happened. The irony it was aided and abetted by the west. Why? Perhaps the reason is not as obvious as people think. But that is for another day.

Here is some food for thought

Muslims in the United States have a reproductive rate of 7+ children per couple. Mexicans in the US (counting the illegals) have close to 6 children per couple. 42% of all children under 18 according to the US census are hispanic. And what is the fastest growing religion among hispanics? You guessed it, Islam. The Muslims will not have to fight for control of North America with hispanics because by then they will have converted most of them.

Sociologists will give you the crap that as populations move up the income ladder their reproductive rates go down. Pure BS. Reproduction is a matter of culture. Take the Hasidim, they've been here 5+ generations. Their women are NOT liberated and they have 6+ children per couple. The same can be said about the Amish, another group that never really assimilated and became "American".

We can look at Europe as an example of what the future portends. Not one group of Muslims there have assimilated nor adopted the culture of the country where they have settled. By the end of this century Muslims will be the majority population in most of Western Europe.

The coy pseudo socialist elites that run much of the west believe that their remake of the world in this multiculturalist plan will keep them in place and running things. They are sorely mistaken. They will be the first to. As all elites do, they live in a world isolated and devoid of reality in their fantasies. They refuse to learn from history or they are arrogant enough to believe the rules do not apply to them. In their arrogance they will drag the rst of us into their grave.

[Quix]

FAR TOOOOOOOO TRUE!

[Cronos]

Martel led the resistance, and he was king of the Franks. The Franks were just another german tribe then.

Franks, Frankland, France. Same difference. The Modern French have lesser Gallic roots than you might think. Caesar practically committed genocide when he conquered Gaul, slughtering entire tribes and repopulating the land with Roman citizens and retired Armymen. The modern French has Gauls in Brittany (but they came from Britian when the Anglo Sazxons invaded there) but are mostly Roman-Germanic -- the Frnaks were the only German tribe that moved in -- there were also the goths, the Burgundians and finally the Nordic Norsemen or Normans.

[Cronos]

Charles Martel was the king of the Alsace Franks which were a German tribe. His grandson, known to some as Charlemagne, was in actuality named Karl der Grosse (Karl the Great). His capital would reside in Achen, Germany, not France.

Essentially there was no concept of a nation state until the 1400s. The English Kings -- the Angevin dynasty for 300 years were FRench speakers. Up until the time of John they owned more land in what is now France than the French king -- all of Normandy, Brittany, Anjou, the entire Atlantic cost of modern day France. IT was only when Prince Louis kicked out King John's English from France that France really started to come into being. Thies was not cemented until after the 100 years war when the French threw out the English. This was the beginning of the nation states of France and England. Germnay was not to exist as a nation state until the 1870s, ditto Italy. Beligum came into existance only in the 1700s after the Spanish were thrown out. Spain came into existence in 1492 when the Moors were thrown out. Portugal existed from the 1200-1300s. Poland was a unified state by the 1100s but it was a multi-ethnic state for most of it's history with many German, Lithuanian, Ukrainian families taking Polish names to become part of the Aristocracy (The ruling classes spoke polish). Russia was a mess until the Romanovs (the time under Ivan the TErrible and earlier is the time of the Dukes of Muscovy which is what hte Tsars then really were).

[Cronos]

The other thing that we must keep in mind is the essence of the article. Look how the Moslems have behaved in the past and ask if there is any possibility that they have changed. And then ask how many do we need to kill to get them to settle down again for a couple of centuries.

you need to kill 'em all or conert them all. THere is no other choice. Slam is a cult past it's due date. If it triumphs it is the end of humanity as all modern societies will regress. Look at what it did to Persia and to India. No, this disease must be stopped now.

[Cronos]

If West did not oppose it(Crimean War etc), probably Constantinople("Istambul") and coast of Asian Minor("Turkey") would be still Christian today.

The Crimean war took place only in the 1800s. until the 1700s Turkey was still the Superpower in the Europe and could threaten Vienna. However, you are correct, if the English and French hadn't fought alongside theMuslim Turks against Russia then Constantinople would have re-risen, all of Eastern Europe could have been freed from the Ottoman yoke a lot earlier.

[Cronos]

The germanic tribes developed none of these traits. Me thinks we need a DNA test.

They have a rooster as their national emblem. The Germanic and Celtic tribes were related -- in fact Germanus in latin means authentic or genuine and was used to call them the Genuine Celts.

[Cronos]

Charlemagne would be Charles le magne = Charles the Great.