GWB has done more thus far, in the area of increased border protection than any previous administration.
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Posted on 02/12/2004 9:41:24 PM PST by kattracks
Edited on 07/12/2004 4:13:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
The administration rolled out its top immigration officials and several senior Republican senators yesterday to endorse publicly a guest-worker program offered by President Bush that could give legal status to the 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens now in the United States.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
For the life of me, I can't figure out what GW is trying to do in terms of a political rationale with this amnesty proposal. It's pretty clearly not the "right thing" to do otherwise, since it undermines the rule of law, breaks faith with the American people and their will concerning immigration, undercuts wages for American workers, puts massive new strains on our social services, and introduces social, cultural, ethnic and linguistic tensions in our nation.
He's not going to pick up any votes in any non-Hispanic voting bloc, because they either don't care about the illegal issue, or they are concerned enough about it that Bush would lose votes among these blocs, such as blacks and Asian Americans (here in California, Vietnamese Americans are in the forefront of efforts to make sure illegals don't get driver licenses).
He's not going to net any votes from Hispanics, because like the rest of the population, the ones who like the idea of amnesty don't think Bush's plan goes far enough, and those Hispanics who oppose illegal amnesty (oh, yes, there are plenty of them) won't vote for Bush over amnesty.
Then there all of us who care enough about the issue that we can't in good conscience vote for a man who makes such a nation-killing proposal, as ready as many of us were to vote for him before January 7 (I was). Does he really think he can do without us? According to this article, the answer is "yes."
So why the heck did he do it?
By becoming rats ourselves? No thanks.
Rats, heck! Karl Rove wants us all to become mice.
The interview in a reference to the application that the currently illegal alien will be asked to comply with in order to get his/her special work visa.
They do not yet have a protocol, but are discussing it.
What they will want to know is the usual ID questions for a security check and the answers to questions relating to the work. Where are you going to work? Name of company. location, number of employees if known, name of supervisor or boss. What are you going to do for this company? Rate of pay, number of hours, cash or check, are taxes withheld, social security etc.
Then I would presuppose that questions might be asked like: How long have you been here? How did you live and where? Addresses? How many of your family is here now? Names, and addresses, phone numbers of family, contacts, friends...
You see where I am going with this.
In addition, they would review their documents and verify them.
Since the granting of the application for the visa depends on a verified job, then all that would be done in addition to the clearance.
A substantial fine will be assessed to help defray the costs of this program and the illegal would be held until all is processed and approved. If approved a biometric ID would be issued. If not approved the person would be deported immediately.
They want to do this at a fast clip. Some would sail through and other would be held for as long as it takes.
It was said by some that the logistics would be doable.
I am only addressing the illegals who turn themselves in. The ones who do not will be picked up eventually because they will have difficulty finding work due to a lack of employers as the newly obtained info goes to the enforcement people.
New applications will be accepted from all countries as the program is set up. All these visas will be issued hand and glove with a verified job.
No verified job, no reason for a work visa. They will work the ongoing verification like a probation system. If they lose the job or it ends, they lose their visa.
The data based created from the interview is key to locating the employers, the relatives and the contacts for each person. That data is needed to enforce the law.
Question that I still have about family visitation and the like were posed, but not discussed. There was so much and so little time.
As to the different feelings of the panel, there were basically three groups.
Those adamantly opposed to everything. Those who admired the president for taking this on and getting something started and the democrats who say it is too little but a start, and they did not show up.
The consensus was that what ever is done has to have the understanding and support of the general public because of the distrust of congress on this issue. It was noted more than once that the employer was key to the success. They must be controlled to control the influx of people looking for jobs.
It was also noted that a big problem surfaced when border controls were stiffened. People stayed and did not go home because they were afraid they could never return.
It was pointed out that the circular movement had to be restarted and that it was key to the success of any reform.
The totally opposed faction was listened to but not agreed with. The consensus was that something had to be done and it had to be 100% effective this time around without any doubt of failure.
I agree with that consensus.
..just all you'll fill dem dang slots in dat dar chaingang or you'll ain't gonna hav no jobs at all cause I'll a givem ta dem dar mexeecans.
Great point! (and as pitiful as the situation is, funny too)
Under current law, there is little judicial or political cover to do the things that many of you have suggested.
His proposal would back door that cover in. He did not say that, but he did not have to.
The deportation rate will never match or exceed the rate that they are comming in or overstaying their visas.
Current law does no favors to the enforcement people so they can do their jobs.
If they tried, (and they do) the media and the courts would stop them as they are doing now.
Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.
"Many U.S. employers of aliens have difficulties in finding Americans to fill jobs performed by illegal aliens," he said. "Employers also have difficulty in determining who is legal and who is illegal due to the lack of verifiable documentation in the hiring process.
"This wink-and-nod cycle contributing to hiring illegal aliens must stop, while still providing a method for U.S. employers to gain access to the workers they need," he said
I had to read this again after you pointed it out. It really is an amazing statement. Our dear Sen. Chambliss has bluntly stated that we are merely workers in the world temp pool, and he is the temp agency that will provide business with the necessary workers.
Although I still disagree with your position, particularly your assessment of how aggressive we can be about enforcing the current law (Holland, the most liberal nation on earth, just announced it was deporting 26,000 illegal aliens, the equivalent of 520,000 deportations of illegals from our nation), as long as you are approaching this issue from the standpoint of what's best for the country rather than simply what's best for one party or one candidate, as you guys on the other side like to say about Bush's proposal, "at least it's a start." :)
I'm calling it a night. See you in the immigration thread trenches, guy.
No, I don't agree with all that Bush does and says.
I cannot support the government funding of religious enterprises, I detest the fact that he has not used his veto pen and a few other aggravations.
I did see the wisdom of signing the campaign finance bill and letting the courts dicker with it. (that one put me a odds with a bunch, just like this one)
I consider myself a patriot and a republican, but not necessarily a conservative in all things. The term seems to elude me, but I want what is best and Bush know more about this problem then most.
The devil is in the details and I trust that Congress will do everything that they can to screw this up.
I will be watching and participating in this one, more than any other because of it's obvious importance to all and the complications of another failure.
See you, or read you later.
It's hypocrisy in it's purest form. And they got that way by supporting their party, before country, regardless of consequences.
He has made no attempt to fix it either. Granting amnesty to illegal aliens is not the answer. The borders should have been closed on September 12. Many will never forgive him for that, and now this just makes it worse. Americans are getting sick of living with the mess and being forced to pay for it.
GWB has done more thus far, in the area of increased border protection than any previous administration.
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That's a pretty radical thing to say... I bet the DU'ers went into orgasm when they read that. You just might be on the wrong track if you make a communist smile.
They're Americans, they come from the same continent as us. It's disgraceful how historically and geographically ignorant some of our own citizens are. I'd gladly trade our stupid for Mexico's hard working.
You can't possibly be this stupid. With the term MAP in your screen name, you don't know that we share the same continent? Psss. . .here's a little secret. EVEN CANADIANS are Americans! I guess that's a little easier to accept because of pigment and dialect?
There is no evidence to support your claim. In fact, the president will do well by expanding his base into the hispanic population and into the independent groups. Rove doesn't care if he pisses off the Christian Identity trailer demographic. They're just throw backs to the bitter old civil right days. Time has passed them by.
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