GOP senators, officials back alien proposal

Washington Times ^ | 2/13/04 | Jerry Seper

[kattracks]

The administration rolled out its top immigration officials and several senior Republican senators yesterday to endorse publicly a guest-worker program offered by President Bush that could give legal status to the 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens now in the United States.

[Map Kernow]

You know, buddy, I found that story you referenced here. The title of the article is "Bush assures Hispanics 'you are part of the dream'," and details Bush's efforts to placate Hispanics after declining to address a meeting of the extremist, racist Hispanic group "La Raza" ("Raza" means "race" in Spanish, and not the NASCAR kind, either). It was an announcement made for Hispanics and to Hispanics, and you're right, it escaped my attention. I'm betting it was meant to, O Devotee of the "Truth."

[PRND21]

Were in deep sh*t.

Great news! Is it shallow now?

[Cold Heat]

Thanks............I think.........

[PresbyRev]

Pitiful, rather, is a willing blindness to the overthrow of our nation's borders by those ostensibly sworn to her defense.

Immigration should be allowed, but only under the old rubrics which required the renunciation of foreign allegiances and citizenships; health tests & criteria; potential trade skills, etc.

[citizen]

Poat 109: That's such good and pertinent research on the 2000 platform of GW Bush RE his proposed policy on immigration I had to save it for future use.

Thank you.

[citizen]

The Bush proposal controls the numbers by linking it to demand. It also controls the currently un-controlled employers.

All attempts to control the employer have failed up to now. This proposal does it via the interview. It collects information on the employer from the applicant. That info can then be data based for IRS to access.

Empolyers out-of-control: Yes. Also no. From what I read, regarding the current situation, an employer inclined to check the proffered papers of an applicant will come under great pressure and threat of lawsuits by action groups if the employer denies employment while attempting to verify the data provided by an applicant. Very dicey in practice. Plus many empolyers care nothing for the laws and regulations, they only want the cheap labor.

We need more info here: Define 'interview'

Define 'information on the employer'

Define 'applicant'

An IRS database? Touting such will likely not help your argument here or in any forum.

We know the current sorry state of the enforcement of laws against the hiring illegals. When the pro-immigration lobbyists, the business lobyists, special interest groups of varying spectrums, the liberals, the Dimocrats and RINOs, and the PC press gets through molding these legislative works, well, I'm not at all hopefull of meaningful immigration control being enacted.

It's sort of like what they say RE campaign finance control: Immigrants will find a way into the country.

The Presidency is the bully pulpit: Did Bush ask for more or less immigration? Bush has laid down his guidelines: Pretty much an open border policy, guzzied up with fanciful language.

[Cold Heat]

I have no problem with that. In fact, it is a good idea to revisit and rewrite the entire code.

But as a former construction hand and a person who has obtained work visas to foreign countries so that I might make some money and bring it home, I see no reason to deny that to others who wish to do the same.

Nobody has said anything about grandfathered citizenship or anything of that kind.

That is why I am for the proposal and I will withhold my approval of the final bill until I see it. (in a couple years or so)

[Map Kernow]

You're welcome, fellow citizen!

We've been told so many times that the January 7 proposal simply represents the platform Bush ran on in 2000, that I decided to see what the platform actually said. (I know---we're not really supposed to do that because it might uncover discrepancies, and whatever we do here, we don't want to "help elect Democrats," now do we?)

The bottom line is that, although the 2000 platform did call for a complete overhaul of the immigration system, and called for increases in H 1-B and agricultural visas, nothing in the 2000 GOP platform spoke of cutting the illegal immigrants in our country any breaks---whether you want to call it "amnesty," "earned legalization," whatever---, and hence there is no basis for the assertion that all of us 2000 Bush voters knew or should have known that he was going to propose this rotten amnesty deal that he has now proposed.

No, that type of foreknowledge was apparently reserved for select citizens of Mexico, all buen amigos de Jorge Doble V Bush.

[Cold Heat]

The Presidency is the bully pulpit: Did Bush ask for more or less immigration? Bush has laid down his guidelines: Pretty much an open border policy, guzzied up with fanciful language.

No he did'nt. he left all the details to the lawmakers.

He did indicate that he was in favor of upping the numbers of slots across the board and then tied it to jobs that Americans won't fill of some sort of verified basis.

The involvement of IRS enforcement is a critical part of any legislation that would be effective.

The businesses that hire illegals are the real culprits here. That is why the opposition is so determined to stop this. That is where the money is.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Pitiful, rather, is a willing blindness to the overthrow of our nation's borders by those ostensibly sworn to her defense.

Yep...

[Joe Hadenuf]

The bottom line is that, although the 2000 platform did call for a complete overhaul of the immigration system, and called for increases in H 1-B and agricultural visas, nothing in the 2000 GOP platform spoke of cutting the illegal immigrants in our country any breaks---whether you want to call it "amnesty," "earned legalization," whatever---, and hence there is no basis for the assertion that all of us 2000 Bush voters knew or should have known that he was going to propose this rotten amnesty deal that he has now proposed.

Excellent post. Many won't forget.

[Joe Hadenuf]

What we got instead were efforts by GW Bush to come to a sweetheart amnesty deal with Vicente Fox even before the end of his first year in office. And now we have the atrocious---some have termed it "treasonous"---January 7 proposal, which even if you don't want to call it an "amnesty," far exceeds anything even hinted at by Bush and the GOP in 2000---in fact, I would say it's in flat contradiction of what we were promised.

Another excellent post. Thank you for your input.

[Cold Heat]

Immigrants will find a way into the country.

The law, which has yet to be written can really have some teeth in it.

After which, people who are illegal and or have false papers and or are otherwise unemployable will not get work.

Hence, no reason to come.

Please see my point that nothing is done yet. it is still the status quo.

The failure of the 86 reforms burn deep in our conscious minds and cannot be denied.

We have a opportunity to start anew with a brand new slate.

Blind opposition will not accomplish anything, and that is a fact.

[TomasUSMC]

The borders won't be secure until Congress and the Prez allow the Border Patrol to do its job. And they can't do their job unless there is a border to toss the illegals back across. We need a fence like they built in San Diego.

Otherwise, they come back the next day. Actually, we need to give them a couple of years hard labor if we catch them, then send them back. Make crossing the border illegally something that doesn't pay off.

Just think what kind of border fence we could build with 12 million prisoners filling the fence building jobs Americans didn't want to fill.

[Constitutional Patriot]

There is no such ting as a "republican" anymore.

For the life of me, I don't know what happened to the GOP in the last 10 years.

It may be time for a new party.

[Cold Heat]

There is no such ting as a "republican" anymore.

The only thing that has changed is that the right wing is no longer in control.

That is why Buchannon left.

But you cannot go far. Because of the need for the Republican party to win it had to liberalize a bit in order to garner a majority. They are riding the fence closely as the 2000 election revealed.

Bush, as leader of the party, is doing what he MUST DO to keep the party in the majority.

It is quite simple.

Lead, follow or get the heck out of the way. We must win to keep the rat infestation out. That is politics, not principles.

[dagnabbit]

And now we have the atrocious---some have termed it "treasonous"January 7 proposal

I'm one of the some. It's treason.

Come November, we get to choose from among two enemies of Americans.

[TomasUSMC]

President Bush did indicate that he was in favor of upping the numbers of slots across the board and then tied it to jobs that Americans won't fill. What kind of jobs might they be? They wouldn't be underpaying jobs would they.

Notice there is no connection between jobs we won't FILL, AND PAY!

And since when is it that we are supposed to FILL jobs? Sounds like the President is saying it is our obligation to FILL some big business quote out there somewhere. Again no mention of pay, .....
..just all you'll fill dem dang slots in dat dar chaingang or you'll ain't gonna hav no jobs at all cause I'll a givem ta dem dar mexeecans.

So...No Borders - No Votes

Its President Bush who is doing everything in his power to elect a Democrat. I can't wait to see what next week's salvo against the right will be.
Oh I know, he will introduce Bilingual Spanglish as the official language.

[Map Kernow]

We need a fence like they built in San Diego.

I remember clear as day the problems with illegal crossings they used to have at San Ysidro: illegals sneaking into railyards and trying to clutch the undercarriage of train cars in motion to get past the San Onofre checkpoint, poignant yellow warning signs on I-5 showing a Mexican family running across a freeway after so many were plastered trying to cross, etc.

It all changed in 1994, when Prop. 187 passed and Republican Governor Pete Wilson, who no one thought could be re-elected after he screwed conservatives over on tax and budget pledges he made in 1990 (remind you of anyone?), was handily re-elected on an explicitly anti-illegal immigrant platform. I vividly remember Wilson's TV ads: a voice-over intoned "This is the right way" while showing a segment of new citizens being sworn in, and then, showing a segment of illegals dashing across at San Ysidro, the voice continued, "This is the wrong way." The fence at the San Ysidro crossing went up in record time after that---Clinton clearly got the message, and didn't want San Diegans to switch their vote from him in 1996 over the border issue. It's worked very well since then at that segment.

We need to extend the wall. Keep 'em out. Ship 'em out. Let 'em in when WE want 'em in.

[dagnabbit]

After which, people who are illegal and or have false papers and or are otherwise unemployable will not get work.

So the Kerry or Bush2 administration is going to enforce immigration laws? What in the track record of either of these co-thinkers on this issue leads you to believe this?