Toledo bar owners jeer smoking ban

At a place best known for its hot dogs, cold beer and cross-dressing M*A*S*H character Cpl. Max Klinger, something seemed oddly out of place on Monday.

For one, the bar area at Tony Packo's was almost completely empty during the typically busy noon rush.

And the number of ``no smoking'' signs -- one on every table and a large one at the entrance -- almost outnumbered the hot dog buns, autographed by notable visitors, that are nailed to the wall.

At 12:01 a.m. Sunday, Toledo became the first Ohio community to nip smoking in the butt inside all restaurants, bars and bowling alleys.

As a result, the mood among smokers and bar owners has become spicier than the pickles at the city's signature hot dog spot.

Jason Mandel, the general manager at Tony Packo's, said one regular customer came in Monday afternoon to order one last hot dog and announce he will now be dining in a neighboring suburb where his favorite dining companion -- a cigarette -- is welcome.

Another regular at the restaurant's bar, Mandel said, came in Sunday and made a similar pronouncement and left behind one last tip for the bartender -- $260.

``We will probably lose a lot of business,'' he said. ``But it's too early to tell how much.''

About the only smoke inside the Durty Bird Bar near the Toledo Mud Hens' downtown ballpark was the steam coming from its fuming owner's ears.

His anger over the ban, which survived a recent effort by tavern owners to gather enough signatures to put it up to a vote in November, has prompted him to take his fight to the streets and attach a large protest sign outside his building.

The rambling sign proclaims that all are welcome inside the smoke-free bar with the exception of the city's mayor and the City Council members who unanimously passed the ban.

``I might have pissed off a couple politicians,'' he said, looking at the large white sign.

Ford stands by his push to ban indoor smoking in public places, arguing it's unfair to expose others to secondhand smoke.

``If we curb secondhand smoke, we have helped out a lot,'' he said. ``I believe that when people get used to it in bars, restaurants and bowling alleys, it will eventually help business and people will enjoy the smoke-free environment.''

On the first day of the ban, Trychel saw the typical Sunday night take at his Korner Bar drop from about $300 to just $24.

If the drop in business isn't bad enough, they argue the price of being caught letting someone smoke is even worse.

A first offense costs $600 for the bar's manager and server to attend a three-hour mandatory smoke-free workplace education session.

The next infraction costs $800 and all the bar's employees at work at the time of the offense must attend the training and be paid their regular salary for their time at the session.

A third infraction costs $1,000 and all employees of the bar or restaurant must be paid to attend the mandatory training. A fourth infraction could cost the business its liquor license.

In addition to sending police officers and air-control inspectors to look for offending businesses, the city has also set up a hot line for residents to report those flicking their ashes at the ordinance. By Monday, a handful of snitches had already dialed the number.

``The city of Toledo can't stop people from smoking crack, but they do this,'' said Ted Grandowicz, owner of Scotty's Cafe. ``If I thought no smoking would have brought in a ton of business -- don't you think I would have done it myself?''

It doesn't appear any other Ohio communities are waiting in the wings to follow Toledo's lead. It's not even being discussed in Akron.

John Mahoney, deputy director of the Ohio Municipal League, a group that represents 815 of the state's 900 cities, said there have been unsuccessful attempts by county health departments, including Toledo's Lucas County and Columbus' Franklin County, to adopt similar smoking bans.

But Toledo, Mahoney said, is the first city in the state to adopt one that includes bars, restaurants and bowling alleys -- popular haunts for smokers.

``Is this issue at the top of every city's agenda?'' he said. ``I don't think so.''

A bar is usually a little slice of the neighborhood; the whole business on here of smoking laws is not about whether the ban on such is healthy or not, legal or not, popular or not - it has to do with what the powers-that-be will come for next.

When a barowner and his help all smoke and his customers have always mostly smoked and the city comes in and puts out the smoking lamp, only an idiot would be surprised to hear some grumbling going on.

Given the current environment, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see smoking banned in all places, public and private a few years from now and fatty foods and sugary confections regulated within an inch of their existence -- but, that doesn't make it right.

Somehow over the past few decades, the notion that all bad habits and unhealthful activities have come to create an expressed and direct cost to the public at large has taken hold even when there is no evidence to support this; actually, a cursory look at the homeless should serve as an adequate disclaimer to such a notion, for the greatest expense we generally incur on their behalf is a few pounds of printer's ink around the holidays and a thirty-buck box when someone stumbles over the remains in an alley abandoned by the good people after the streetlights were shot out.

Yes, my friend, you have a lot left to learn.

And does it surprise you that the overall cancer death rate for men 45 and over has dropped since 1970 except in lung cancer, which has risen in your age bracket?

The adjusted mortality rate from cancer of the respiratory system system per 100,000 population increased from 12.8 in 1950 to 28.4 in 1970 and 59.1 in 1991.

And it was unchanged in 2002 at 56.0

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/burdenbook2002/02_lungcancer.htm

What's that got to do with anything??

The number of smokers has greatly declined since 1950 as have the places where people are exposed to 2nd hand smoke yet the incidences of Lung Cancer has increased and those people over 45 are living longer than ever.

Are you content with the health expenditures and the lost productivity that are a result of lung cancer?

GOPyouth, I don't think so, Only a Liberal would use that typical Liberal talking point like that.

Well, Are you content with the health expenditures and the lost productivity that are a result of ?

Lets ban them too!!!!

Let me guess you would be against that, I am sure you are one of those Hypocrites who only believes in Freedom but only if they are freedoms you like.

And if people didn't smoke or were never exposed to 2nd hand smoke, Lung cancer would vanish and we all live forever and never have any "Health Expenditures" or Lost Productivity from any illness. Get real.

Other take from

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030828/NEWS17/108280108

Above the state line, smokers are welcome

By LARRY P. VELLEQUETTE

BLADE STAFF WRITER

TEMPERANCE - Michelle Bork is thinking of sending the Toledo City Council a box of cigars.

And if the 12 august council members from south of the state line want to legally smoke them, well, hey, she says, "come on up."

Across southern Monroe County last week, tavern, restaurant, and bar owners prepared for what they believe will be a migration of new customers to their respective establishments, all courtesy of a new ban on smoking in most public places in Toledo that went into effect Sunday.

"We’ve had a lot of people come in and check us out, saying that they need to find a new bar to hang out at," explained Mrs. Bork, whose M.T. Loonies bar and grill opened for business along Lewis Avenue just four months ago. "We’ve had a [billiards] league from a bar in Toledo come and ask us to sponsor them already, and I expect a lot more smokers are going to be heading our way."

There are more than a dozen bars, restaurants, and taverns just north of the state line that stand to benefit from an influx of smoking Toledo patrons over the next several months. But what remains to be seen is whether the migration - and all the accompanying smoke - will ultimately be good for business.

At the Erie Restaurant and Bar, owner Al Delrue said he doesn’t think his business is going to go up or down because of Toledo’s smoking ban. A former smoker, Mr. Delrue said his customers will continue to be able to smoke in his bar, but will remain prohibited from lighting up in his restaurant.

"I think smokers can go a short time without a cigarette," so Ohio patrons will continue to patronize Ohio businesses, Mr. Delrue explained. "I sympathize with smokers. I used to be a smoker, but I don’t like to sit next to a smoker when I’m eating. I used to smoke three packs a day, so I know that cigarette smoke stinks."

Toledo’s anti-smoking law passed in July and survived an attempt to force a referendum on the topic. It allows smoking only in bars and restaurants with separate, fully enclosed rooms no larger than 30 percent of their total serving space. The rooms must be separately ventilated and may not be the only access of non-smokers to bathrooms and exits.

Bars in Toledo have up to four months to construct their smoking lounges, and a person caught smoking illegally could be slapped with a $100 fine. Only about 30 percent of Toledo residents smoke.

Council member unanimously passed the anti-smoking ordinance largely as a workplace safety measure to protect employees at bars and restaurants from inhaling the smoke from patrons’ cigarettes.

"You can’t believe the calls I’m getting from girls looking for jobs," said Donna Bugbee, manager of the Michigan Tavern, a Bedford Township landmark that’s sat at the corner of Jackman and Smith roads for decades.

With just over a mile between the tavern and General Motors Toledo Hydramatic Plant, Ms. Bugbee said her phone was ringing off the hook last week as some bar and tavern owners south of the state line cut back on their staffing in response to what they believe will be slowing sales.

"Usually I have to beg to find people who want to work. But I bet I handed out eight applications today alone."

Bob Pruden, the owner of Michigan Tavern, occupies a place at the very heart of the issue. While he anticipates a booming business in the coming months at his Bedford Township bar, things aren’t looking too good at his Tribe’s Tavern, which is at the corner of Alexis Road and Clover Lane in Toledo. "This is all we’ve talked about now for the last couple weeks," said Mr. Pruden, who smokes and opposed Toledo’s smoking ban even though one of his properties stands to gain from its implementation.

If it wasn't so sad and devastating to so many people this would actually be funny.

Those workers that were supposed to be protected are following the smokers and secondly people are now driving farther which will lead to an increase in drunk driving.

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