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It's evening in America, Buchanan says, and immigrants are to blame (Buchanan interview)
Fort Worth Star-Telegram | 1/03/2002 | Jeff Guinn (Books Editor)

Posted on 01/03/2002 7:56:52 AM PST by sinkspur

Pat Buchanan is aware that potential readers of his new book already either adore him or disdain everything he writes "because I am the one writing it."

So in The Death of the West: How Dying Populations and Immigrant Invasions Imperil Our Country and Civilization (Thomas Dunne Books/St. Martin's Press, $25.95), the ex-presidential candidate and conservative pundit is trying to back up his apocalyptic projections with facts and figures provided by such disparate sources as "Russian leader Mr. Putin, a British archbishop and the United Nations. By drawing on what anyone would have to consider neutral sources, this makes my message far more powerful."

The gist of The Death of the West's messages:

Low birthrates are decimating the population of almost every European country - by 2050, only one-tenth of the world's population (America included) will be of European descent.

The unchecked influx of immigrants into America, legal and otherwise, is gradually handing the nation over to insurgents who come to force their foreign values on us rather than accepting ours.

Political correctness on the part of unwitting Americans plays into the hands of those who intend to obliterate our culture.

The events of Sept. 11 may provide enough of a wake-up call, Buchanan says, to make "the death of the West" only a threat rather than a certainty.

"The book is about a point I've been making for a long time, that the West is dying," Buchanan says during a lengthy phone conversation. "If we don't change how we do things, we'll be gone by the middle of this century, if not before. The horror of Sept. 11, I think, awoke a lot of Americans to new realities. It's a healthy thing to remember there are people out there who want to destroy us."

In Buchanan's opinion, it took terrorist attacks on New York City and the Washington, D.C., area to drive that message home to an American public more intent on hedonism than heroism.

"The '90s were a time of prosperity I've likened to the 1920s," Buchanan says. "The '20s were about money, drinking, jazz. The '90s were money, drugs, rock. The '20s ended with the stock market crash, the Depression, then on to Hitler, Tojo, Stalin. The 1990s ended on Sept. 11. We're at the kind of place Walter Lippmann called 'a plastic moment,' a time when people can change their destiny. I hope this book helps that. I'm not so much predicting these awful things will happen as saying, 'This is what the end is if the numbers remain the same.' "

Not that he holds much hope: "To many American young people, people like me belong to a bad old era. They've been taught that in school, indoctrinated in it. They want to say goodbye to the way our generation did things. This is why I don't think much will be done about the problems we face."

Buchanan acknowledges he's saying things that most Americans would prefer not to hear and that many condemn as racist and inflammatory.

"My response is that it's too late in the day for political correctness," he says. "After Sept. 11, with those acts perpetrated by people we literally welcomed into this country, Americans ought to be aware there is such a thing as too much diversity, too much welcoming. Look: I've said that if you bring 100 Zulu tribesmen into Virginia and 1 million British, the British would be assimilated more comfortably. I base that on those British coming into an American culture based on English law and tradition. And when I said that, something that seems like a simple statement, I've been accused of racism."

Now, Buchanan says, "I could substitute Iranians or Saudis for the Zulu, and people might understand." And, he adds, originally citing the Zulus was in no way racist "because I'm friends with the Zulu ruler. It's just a matter of acknowledging the differences in culture."

Potential immigrants should be judged by one measure, Buchanan adds: "Are they likely to carry on our culture, which makes America a unique country and civilization? Or are they not?"

Population explosions in Islamic, African and Latin American nations are coinciding with a decline in the U.S. birthrate, Buchanan notes, citing U.N. studies. To bolster "American cultural" numbers, Buchanan concludes in The Death of the West, American women should be encouraged via tax breaks to increase the country's population: "A free society cannot force women to have children, but a healthy society can reward those who preserve it by doing so."

Though he doesn't broach the subject in The Death of the West, in conversation Buchanan is willing to also discuss his own future.

"Politically speaking, I ran two times for the Republican nomination," he says. "We came close in '96, and we'd have gotten it instead of [Bob] Dole with one more primary win. In 2000, we tried to create a new party. It didn't work. So my political career is probably over."

But Buchanan has no intention of abandoning public debate.

"I've done my best to say the things I thought necessary, and I intend to keep writing books and to keep speaking out," he says. "I love doing it. I hope the Lord gives me 25 more years. If people don't like me or my message, well, that's not my concern. Political correctness is almost an impenetrable shield of basic realities."

For education and discussion purposes only.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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To: Thorin
Employers should be allowed to shop for the lowest prices for labor that they can get. But the laws of market economics dictate how far down they can go.

The "they're-taking-our-jobs" approach strikes me as amazingly socialist in that it assumes that a person is entitled to a particular job at a particular price because he wants it at that price and the government's job is to prop up that price regardless of market conditions.

441 posted on 01/05/2002 9:04:28 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: garbanzo
No, the assumption isn't "socialist," it's American. Unlike the hyper-libertarians, I believe that nations are real entitities, not artificial constructs that should be pushed aside in favor of world government and corporate power.

I also believe that I have certain obligations to my country and my countrymen, and I do not want to see my countrymen lose work or suffer from declining wages as a result of mass immigration. If you'd examine American history, you would learn that many American statesmen felt the same way.

442 posted on 01/05/2002 9:28:37 AM PST by Thorin
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To: Thorin
Your proposed immigration policy vests complete power in corporate interests, which is contrary to the American tradition of having the American people (through their elected representatives) determine who can come to these shores.

Thorin, you hit the nail on the head once again. That would be the upshot of the kind of immigration policy that Garbanzo advocates. Sad to say that much of this is already in place if not in structure certainly in practice.

443 posted on 01/05/2002 9:33:02 AM PST by WRhine
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To: rudeboy666
How about the conservatives? Is the Ice-man expressing the what you guys really feel?

As far as I am concerned...you bet. What the Ice-man laid out in his posts is pretty much the way I see what is happening in this country. And he did a great job of explaining the underlying factors and historical background of this immigration invasion and why it spells trouble ahead. I give the Ice-man a lot of credit for having the guts to speak the whole truth in no uncertain terms on this very controversial subject. The truth may hurt but if the truth never sees the light of day due to PC this crisis will only get worse.

444 posted on 01/05/2002 10:14:19 AM PST by WRhine
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To: Thorin
I guess that's where we disagree - about the "realness" of nations. I think much of the reification of nationality in the modern era, especially in the US - comes from the relative stability of national borders over the last half-century. As the US has never really lost any territory we sometimes come to think of those lines on the maps as being real things rather than as political constructs. Historically, especially in Europe, borders were forever changing - and it's only been since the end of the war that Europe has enjoyed the fiction of well-defined borders - in large part because all of the countries in western Europe embraced democratic capitalism.

From the other side of the coin - many Mexicans believe that the southwest belongs to them because the US stole it from Mexico. And we did take a lot of land from Indians and Mexico and others so the modern idea of protecting "our" borders can plausibly said to be somewhat hypocritical.

445 posted on 01/05/2002 10:28:05 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: rudeboy666
Because the truth is that a lot of the restrictionits ARE xenophobic and racist. It is not so much that they disdain unfettered immigration but the 'type' of people that are coming over. As i've said before, if people like Pat would restrict their critiques to culture and politics, then they would have a legitimate point. However, the Buchanans of the world seem to show their true colors when they start to talk in terms of racial types. Somehow, the presumption seems to be that America would not really be 'America' if it didn't have a 'white' majority. Never mind that the Colin Powells or Clarence Thomas's of the world show us otherwise.

I am neither xenophobic nor racist, and neither is Pat. However, I believe the West (America and Europe) will cease to be the West if they cease to have a majority of European descent.

The argument does not rest upon racism or xenophobia. It rests upon this question: Does not a society lose its identity if it is suddenly overwhelmed by people who were not born into it and whose ancestors were not a part of it?

The question of whether individuals whose ancestors were not part of a society can adopt it as their own and become full-fledged members is an entirely different question. The answer is that yes, it is possible, but it is difficult and cannot happen overnight. America at the turn of the last century was a Balkinized mess, littered with ethnic ghettos and immigrant-driven political machines. It took 41 years of no immigration (1924-1965) and two world wars to successfully assimilate all the Italian, Irish, German, and Slavic ethnics. Experience shows that the only way to make aliens full-fledged members of a society is to cut them from their roots, immerse them in the new society, and force them to accept the new society's heretage and roots as their own. How can this be done if natives cease to be a majority?

Also, I think that it is a sad day in America when our['hispanic'] patriotism and loyalty is being questioned. Never mind the high number of 'Hispanics' who are currently serving in our military or the millions of proud Americans who would never think of a 'reconquista'. But I guess that we will never be 'real' Americans in a lot of people's eyes.

I know there are many Meztizos who are proud, loyal Americans. However you cannot ignore the rhetoric of the leaders of the Meztinzo communities in the US. Mexican polititians openly speak of reconquista, as do leaders of all the major Meztizo organizations. President Fox says that he considers all people of Mexican origin living in the US as his citizens. Is this not a real problem, which is in part due to too much Meztizo immigration?

446 posted on 01/05/2002 11:27:31 AM PST by traditionalist
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Comment #447 Removed by Moderator

To: rudeboy666
From the above comments, it is obvious that you do not consider people of 'color' being 'real' Americans. Somehow, you need pure whiteness to qualify as a full person and to preserve the ideals of freedom.

Sigh. Go back and read my post. You obviously didn't get past the first sentence. And do try to get past this leftist nonsense that anyone concered with demographics is a racist. It is such a bore.

448 posted on 01/05/2002 12:42:14 PM PST by traditionalist
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To: dougherty
I agree with you on that one.
449 posted on 01/05/2002 7:25:54 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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Comment #450 Removed by Moderator

Comment #451 Removed by Moderator

To: Iceberg
Boy oh Boy, The PC Poh-Leese gonna come get you for that.....hadn't you heard? There never was an American people. Jus' a motley gang'o'immigrants. Where U git these strange ideas?

Obviously, /sarcasm.

452 posted on 01/06/2002 9:04:47 AM PST by Regulator
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To: Iceberg
Isn't time to shave your head again? How long do you let the stubble grow before it's time to shear it off?

My people is the human race.

453 posted on 01/06/2002 10:30:32 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: DoughtyOne
One more thing - do you really want to align yourself with the likes of Iceberg?
454 posted on 01/06/2002 10:32:17 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: WRhine
What the Ice-man laid out in his posts is pretty much the way I see what is happening in this country.

Opps. Sorry, I mean't Iceberg.

455 posted on 01/06/2002 11:11:09 AM PST by WRhine
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To: garbanzo
You're refering to Iceberg's post in 451.   In it he defends the "idea" that his race should survive.  You evidently feel that this "idea" is too controversial to be aired.  In fact you try to shame me into refuting that post or even admitting that I could possibly agree with him.  I find nothing objectional in his premise.

I believe you stated that you were of Mexicen ancestry.  If asked if I thought it were a good thing to see your race extinguished, I'd answer with an emphatic no!  In fact I find it distrubing every time an isolated tribe or language ceases to exist.  Those should be sustained, even by artifical means if necessary.  Should they become the dominant cultures outside their normal rhelm?  Of course not.

Let me ask you something.  Do you think we should allow Klydsdale (sp?) horses to become extinct?  Why not, there are many different horses aren't there?  So what if one subset disappears?  What about subsets of birds, fish, cats or any other species?  I would hope that you would agree that to lose a one of them would be a shame.  Yet when it comes to humans, you're right up front with your appearant glee that the caucasian race as a percentage of the world's populace is in decline.  And when confronted with the fact that there may be no nations with a majority white populace within fifty years, you ask, "So what?"

And you think we're racists?
456 posted on 01/06/2002 12:16:44 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: Iceberg
There is no such thing as race. Scientifically speaking, it is an utterly empty notion. On another post, Iceberg, you claim to admire science. So you should just drop all this race-consciousness stuff altogether. It has done not one wit of good in the entire history of the world. It has served only those who would enslave or oppress others.

I am for the relatively free (but regulated) movement of capital and of labor everywhere. A global market place is the only thing that will spread freedom and wealth all around the world.

457 posted on 01/06/2002 2:04:41 PM PST by leftiesareloonie
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To: garbanzo
I'm with you garbanzo. Thems my people too.

Race consciouness serves only facism of the left or right. you get facism of the left, when victimhood is wielded as a weapon against those who are wrongly, but irrefutably (to the so-called victims) called oppressors. you get facism of the right when race is used illegitimately as a basis of really locking out, victimizing, exterminating, enslaving the "other."

If race consciousness just disappeared both the possibility of left facism and right facism would disappear too -- or at least one of the potential sources of each would be severely diminshed. I'm too much of a pessimist to believe that we wouldn't find other was to step on each other.

458 posted on 01/06/2002 2:12:40 PM PST by leftiesareloonie
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To: garbanzo
I'm with you garbanzo. Thems my people too.

Race consciouness serves only facism of the left or right. you get facism of the left, when victimhood is wielded as a weapon against those who are wrongly, but irrefutably (to the so-called victims) called oppressors. you get facism of the right when race is used illegitimately as a basis of really locking out, victimizing, exterminating, enslaving the "other."

If race consciousness just disappeared both the possibility of left facism and right facism would disappear too -- or at least one of the potential sources of each would be severely diminshed. I'm too much of a pessimist to believe that we wouldn't find other was to step on each other.

459 posted on 01/06/2002 2:12:51 PM PST by leftiesareloonie
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To: Iceberg
I have to say, Iceberg, I don't know which sort of psuedo-conservative wacko scares me more -- xenophobic racists or intellectually lazy religious zealots. I don't want my good name affiliated with either Pat Roberston or Pat Buchanan. I count both of them as wolves in sheeps clothing.
460 posted on 01/06/2002 2:24:05 PM PST by leftiesareloonie
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