Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation??

There is considerable confusion about the Catholic teaching of salvation. I found this on the internet. It was written by a former Presbyterian who became Catholic as an adult. It should be easy to understand he explains the docterine very well. .........

The phrase (in Latin, "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" or "Outside the Church there is no salvation") is a very ancient one, going back to the very early days of Christianity. It was originally meant to affirm the necessity of baptism and Christian faith at a time when

(a) A number of Christians were being tempted under torture to renounce their faith and deny Christ. (He's talking about the Roman Empire and Nero's persecution of Christians, throwing them to lions and such.) (b) Large groups of Christians were being led into "pseudo-Christian" cult-type groups, which were actually just a front for pagan philosophy and religion. (Such as the cult of Mithras which I think was practiced around the time after Jesus died.)

In response, bishops repeated that, if a person were to be aware of the meaning of Christ and then freely deny him or reject him, they had essentially turned away from God and the salvation he offers.

As Christians, we believe that we are saved only through Jesus. As St. Peter reminds his audience in Acts 4:12: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved." In most cases, this means that we believe baptism in water, in the name of the Trinity, is the fundamental requirement for salvation.

However, even from the beginning, the great Christian writer and teacher St. Augustine said that the salvation imparted through baptism can also be imparted through other means: specifically, through the "baptism of blood" (a non-Christian who dies defending Christian beliefs or holy places) and "the baptism of desire" (a non-Christian who has expressed a firm desire to become a Christian, and who shows all the signs of living a Christian life, but who dies before baptism). In both of those cases, the Church has always recognized that the Holy Spirit leads people to God in ways which we cannot always explain or document.

God is able to save anyone he chooses. We trust that he often does this is ways that are not obvious to us, within the hearts of individuals who are sincerely seeking the truth. Otherwise, it would imply that all of humanity was excluded from salvation before Christ came, and that much of humanity (which has not had the opportunity to hear the Christian message until recently) was doomed to be eternally separated from God. This would imply a very cruel and elitist God. Our belief as Christians and Catholics is that God desires the salvation of all people … even those who are not Christian. How he achieves that, however, is a mystery. But we know that our God is a loving God who would not allow people to suffer on account of an ignorance that they were not responsible for.

The Church teaches that baptism, faith, and a life lived in Christ are necessary for salvation. However, Vatican II also taught that, within every human heart, God places the law of conscience. Everybody has a deep sense of right and wrong which ultimately comes from God, and which will lead people to God if they attempt to follow their conscience faithfully. Because Jesus is God, those who move in the direction of God (even non-Christians) are ultimately moving in the direction of Jesus. And if they are moving in the direction of Jesus and His truth, ultimately they are expressing a desire for the salvation that God gives. The Church teaches that, while it is certainly easier to receive salvation as a Christian, it is not impossible to receive salvation in other religions.

This is a challenging situation: on one hand, we must be respectful of the good things to be found in other faiths, and encourage people to live their faiths with sincerity and love.

On the other hand, this does not mean that all religions are the same. We believe that Christ is the ultimate revealing of God to the world, and that the more we know about his message, the greater the chance that we will accept his offer and be saved. We must therefore continue to preach the message of the Gospel, and encourage interested non-Catholics to examine the claims of our faith, without in any way coercing or intimidating them.

Father Feeney was an American priest who, back in the 1940s, taught that if a person was not a Roman Catholic, they were condemned to hell. This has never been the accepted teaching of Catholicism, and Father Feeney was reprimanded by the Vatican for his mistaken understanding.

Nevertheless, there are groups which continue to hold to this strict interpretation, even after the Pope and bishops have specifically rejected it.

The phrase "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" teaches us that salvation is only through Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life. But God is able to save whomever he pleases, whether they are baptized in the Roman Catholic Church or not.

It is important to remember that "the Church" in this phrase does not refer exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church. Salvation is a great gift, and God is a loving Father who wants all of his children to receive it. How he works this out, however, we will only understand in heaven. That is why, whenever we quote "Outside the Church, there is no salvation", we should also remember that "God is in no way bound by the sacraments."

Until then, we continue to proclaim Jesus as Lord (evangelization) and engage in respectful dialogue with followers of other religions, to discover the truths that God had revealed to them to guide them toward salvation, and to share with them the truth as we have discovered it in Christ.

I am in total shock. I've noticed that there aren't many defending these writings.

Yes they are rather startlingly frank words which don't jive at all with what the average RC says they believe about all those who don't follow their ways to the letter, including their version of the sacraments and being subject to the Pope. But SD will be on here soon giving you his usual spin on "development of doctrine".

"Why would Christ die for that? Pagan idol worshippers "follow their conscience." What poppycock. "

You should not be so smug. What if you had been born a Hindu? What if all your ancestors for centuries were Hindu and you loved them and respected them. What if the ties that bound you to them and to your land and culture were intertwined with Hinduism? Are you so smug as to think that just hearing the gospel once or twice could overcome all that conditioning?

Please see my post #12 and meditate on the words I have capitalized and bolded. "Invincible Ignorance" means something, and you have just given a good example of such. "May" also means something, it is not an assurance. God will ultimately be the judge of everyone's culpability (i.e. guilt) of how they responded to His Gospel. Those with a cultural conditioning or bias against Christ or against the Catholic Church may be excused.

Hm, just for clarification, are you saying that the Catholic church is the "only Church" ?

There is only one Church, the Catholic one. All other Chrstians have at some point deviated from Her.

That I, as a Baptist, am not part of the "only Church" and thus am not saved ?

This I did not say. All Christians, by virtue of their Baptism, are joined together to the one Church. Your culpability for remaining outside of the Church's official boundaries and teachings is for God to determine.

So, Dave are you saying here that you have to be a member of the Catholic (captiol C) Church to gain salvation?

Becky, you know darn well that I believe all Christians are "attached" to this one Church and that I have great faith in God's mercy for those who can not see the necessity of the Church.

Are you saying that if they honestly and totally believed that child sacrifices were holy in the eyes of their god, they would be saved?

One would think not, that this act would offend the Law God wrote on our hearts. But it is not ours to judge.

This, of course, is very hypothetical. A sane man anywhere in today's world would have to have a sense of wrongness about child sacrifices.

You obviously haven't heard of "abortion."

When Becky asks SoothingDave "are you saying here that you have to be a member of the Catholic (captiol C) Church to gain salvation?" his answer must be a resounding "YES!"

Iowegian has presented an unimpeachable set of historical Papal pronouncements that makes this basic article of Catholic faith abundantly clear.

There is no interpretive argument possible here on such a fundamental point of Catholic Doctrine.

You don't know me very well, do you?

If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed

Grace is an act?

Try reading for comprehension. Grace is "conferred through the act." Do you think that there are people inside of your radio talking, or do you realize that the voices are conferred through a process of transmission and reception? If you don't turn the radio on, you don't get the message. Does this mean that your act of turning it on makes the entire process happen?

I'm sure that we've been told that grace and works were not the same. Grace is a gift. Since when did we earn a gift?

Since when did I "earn" grace through a sacrament? It is freely given. I obtain grace from God by asking for it. So do you. I ask and receive through the signs Jesus gave us. You ask through prayer. We are both "acting" when we receive grace.

Dave I am so confused. I could swear you and all the catholics have been saying over and over on the Neverending Story that this claim of no salvation outside the catholic church was something the church did NOT teach. So whats the truth, does the RCC teach that or not? Yes or no?

Becky

Becky, you know darn well that I believe all Christians are "attached" to this one Church and that I have great faith in God's mercy for those who can not see the necessity of the Church.

NO I DID NOT KNOW THIS. This seems to me a diliberate twisting of words you all have spoken on the other thread. You all never put it this way. You just told me I was a liar because I said I was taught this very thing. Now you are twisting here for this article to make it fit.

Becky

It is true, but the meaning is not as "black and white" as the Feeneyites or a plain reading of such would imply.

There is only one Way that we are joined together as the Body of Christ - through the One Church. Salvation comes into the world in the person of Jesus, and He established one Church to bring His Salvation to the world. The Church is necessary, for She is the principal instrument through which God's grace enters the world.

Everyone should then, to assure their salvation, be a formal member of this Church and profess what She professes. However, we make allowances for God to have mercy on those, who for reasons beyond their control, do not formally join the Catholic Church.

That's it. Those not formally part of the Catholic Church who are not culpable for this fact can be saved anyway. But this salvation is only possible because these people will be, in some mystical way, "inside" of the Church.

NO I DID NOT KNOW THIS. This seems to me a diliberate twisting of words you all have spoken on the other thread. You all never put it this way.

Then I am sorry. What do you think Steven's little inside joke name change is all about? Because the only way that I can consider him to be a brother Christian is if I consider him "invincibly ignorant."

You just told me I was a liar because I said I was taught this very thing. Now you are twisting here for this article to make it fit.

I don't recall this subject being discussed over there, but if it was I assure you I am not lying here or there. Before Vatican II, we took a dim view of Protestants and their culpability for being such. Now we have a more accepting view.

until Baptists begin speaking mass in latin, accept the pope as a vicar of Christ, and worship the mortal mother of Christ as a co-redeemer, I'm afraid so (sarcasm)

Do you really want me to respond to this? Let's start with simple, human decency. Both "Latin" and "Pope" are proper nouns that are capitalized in the English (there it is again) language. We know you can use the shift key, cause you managed to capitalize "Baptist." We understand Protestants don't follow the Pope, nor do you follow the Queen of England. Or would you needlessly offend the British by writing that "queen of england?"

Biblically there are three ways to get to heaven (be saved)

The first is to obey your conscience. (I'll dig up the scriptures later if anyone wants them. I believe this is in Romans) Of course the moment you violate your conscience you are doomed to hell. There is no way to atone for a broken conscience.

The second way is to follow the LAW completely. (Genesis through Deuteronomy) Of course the Hebrews found this impossible even in a simpler time with far greater influence by the religious leaders. Here breaking the law can be atoned for by sacrifice but the slightest, un-atoned infraction sends you to hell

The third way (and only one that really works) is through faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and His atoning sacrifice. Here sin is already atoned for.

Notice that the concept of 'church' never enters into salvation as defined by the bible. Salvation is between you and God. While the bible does command us to fellowship with other believers this fellowship is NOT required to be saved.

There is no salvation in the Catholic Church. There is no salvation in the Baptist Church. There is no salvation in any church. THERE IS ONLY SALVATION IN THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!

God Save America (Please)

Sometimes, people become debased or degenerate and so their consciences are no longer attuned. But in their OWN mind, they think they are on track.

I disagree. One of the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith as defined by scripture is that we are totally depraved, that is that we (all humans) are degenerate from our birth, it is the work of the Holy Spirit to regenerate us, we don't become degenerate, we become regenerate. There is no "sometimes" about it.

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