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Accident Theories Falling Like Dominos
Me | 11/14/2001

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:54 PM PST by Smogger

Since the morning of the crash of flight 587. Government officials including the NTSB have made every effort to convince the public that the plane crash was the result of an accident and not a deliberate act. So far they have floated several accident theories that have been proven false. If they really believe that it is a problem with the Airbus one wonders why they don't ground that plane.

At anyrate for those of you keeping score we have:

Inquiry May Focus on Engine Explosion, Experts say GE models have had problems in the past

Investigators Find Signs Birdstrike May Have Caused Crash of Flight 587

Both of these theories are apparenlty debunked by the fact that BOTH engines fell off and by:

NTSB: Jet's Engines Show No Internal Failure

Then you have the fuel dumping: (sounds like stream drinking)

Pataki: Pilot of AA flight dumped fuel prior to crash, in (likely) response to mechanical failures

This was supposed to show that it was an accident. However, it was refuted several times in the thread with FREEpers even referring to the chapter ang page of the manual which idicates that it is not possible to dump fuel on this type of plane.

Finally, today we have:

Records: Plane Suffered Turbulence

I am sure this theory will be debunked soon if not already. The question I have is what harm would be done by assuming that it WAS a deliberate act (and then taking additional precautions) and then if you find out later that it was not then so be it.


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To: BluH2o
This is a different article than the one I read earlier. Can't find it right now:

The 27-foot tail fin and the rudder have been pulled out of Jamaica Bay and taken to a nearby collection center for study. Investigators said Wednesday that the tail fin showed no sign of damage from external impact; the rudder was in pieces.

Loss of Tail Fin in Flight Is Rare

121 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:15 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: michaelje
A pathetic attempt to conceal an act of sabotage.

How do you know?

122 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:17 PM PST by WRhine
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To: michaelje
Just like there was no cinspiracy to cover-up twa 800, right?

Right......there was no conspiracy.

I saw films of the wreckage in it's investigative assembly.

I also dealt first hand with the faulty wiring issue. The manufacturer did not test the long-term performance of the insulation or it's effects of chaffing in the airframe.

The conclusions were not only factual but they were logical.....Which is way more than I can say about your Tin-Hat Eeevill-Gubbermint Konspeerasee theerie!

123 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:33 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: WRhine
TWA800

Egypt Air

9/11 Flight 93

Etc...etc...etc...

Same agencies, same tactics.

124 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:34 PM PST by michaelje
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
You seriously must be kidding me. You think a spark in the fuel tank brought down TWA800 ?

I enjoy not only bootlicking freepers, but also those who resort to personal attacks when all else fails.

125 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:34 PM PST by michaelje
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To: ken5050
OK now you're moving past my generalist nature. Had to find good picks of the A300 to get all my shift in place. Didn't realize what a fat ugly pig that plane is. The engines definitely hang low enough to be a problem in a water landing so there's probably something, what I don't know, might actually have to trust the press (I know, it goes against my nature too). As for what gets removed when during maintenance that's going to be plane specific, I know the DC10 you seperated the engine from the nacelle still on the plane, that was part of it's problem, most maintenance guys didn't do that since it was a pain in the butt.

Could be that the forces that hitthe plane when the tail fell off triggered the shear or whatever it is, but that's still going to be an amazing coincidence. Could also be (WAG stuff here) that it's a pilot controlled system (seems safest) and the pilot thought they were going to hit the water (given where they were a controlled crash landing probably would have been on water, assuming they couldn't manage to turn the plane around). There's a lot of possibilities, that's what the NTSB is good at, they know how to look at the bolts and figure out why they aren't attached anymore. Every method of seperation leaves tell tail signs and can be detected by looking for those signs, even rotten metal can be figured out if you recover some of the metal (or if you recover none, that would tell you something right there).

Hope I spread more smarts than BS. Like I said I'm a generalist at heart, I know a little bit about a lot of stuff, my strength is being able to make what I know apply across fields. And I watch a lot of Discovery Channel on the holidays, they usually have stuff about crash investigation during the "drunk driving" holidays. Stay safe.

126 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:35 PM PST by discostu
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Mark at 50.
127 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:41 PM PST by copycat
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To: Smogger
I say we blame it on Osama until proven otherwise.

To what end? Look it could be terrorism and just as a doctor that suspects cancer rules out other less terrible diseases before giving the patient the bad news the NTSB is slowly ruling out other causes before declaring this a terrorist act. The fact is that there may be no way to honestly declare this an accident OR terrorist act. Then what do we do? I know that some believe that the Feds are somehow "pushing" this as an accident to save the airlines but that is just not rational. People will either fly or they won't fly and the sad fact is that the Airline industry and American Airlines in particular may not survive either way. If the Government wants to "spin" this in any direction they are capable of doing it just by falsifying investigation results so the fact that they are actually ruling out many of the obvious accidental causes as they gather the evidence seems to indicate a good faith effort to find the truth.

128 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:41 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: michaelje
Let me guess, you and your buddy Flash Gordon have joined up to defeat the Evil Empires of the Galaxy.

Area 51 has your alien flying saucer warmed-up and ready. Don't forget your secret decoder ring either.

Of course you are sure to take along plenty of Reynolds Wrap!

129 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:41 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: michaelje
I enjoy not only bootlicking freepers,

Why don't you can the "bootlicking" stuff.

130 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:42 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: michaelje
These boots belong to the Rangers maggot!

The only one licking them will be you! (Cambodia 70-71)

131 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:42 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: Smogger
I'm no expert on any of this. But it just seems like terrorist........sabotage. Workers could have gone in and loosened bolts, nuts, whatever. I just have a funny feeling about it. My opinion isn't based on any fact whatsoever.
132 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:42 PM PST by Salvation
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
The tin foil comments are a bit played out.

Why dont you just have another bong hit before you go to bed.

133 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:43 PM PST by michaelje
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To: calebcar
"There seems a curious rush to judgement. Given the high stakes involved what reason would the gov't have to cover up. Not causing fear in the populous doesnt seem enough motive vs the loss of credibility if proven wrong. I don't get it. Any ideas?"

Here are a few ideas I posted in another thread... I don't believe there is a coverup, but the following is why I think that the last thing the goverment wants is for this to be an act of terrorism:

It's certainly understandable that the govt. and the airlines don't want to jump to the conclusion that this was a terrorist act. First of all, there's no evidence yet that points that way, and it would be irresponsible to say it was likely a terrorist act if the facts don't support that. Secondly, it would be a tremendous embarrassment and PR disaster for the govt. and the airlines if it were to be ruled an act of terrorism -- they would have a lot to answer for if such a thing could happen after the supposed improvements in security. Third, the economic impact on the airlines would be horrendous if people lose faith (any more than they already have) in the ability of the airlines to secure the aircraft against acts of terrorism.

134 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:43 PM PST by AfghanAirShow
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To: Smogger
If some turbulence or a jet vortex can rip the tail and both engines off a commercial jet in mid air, then I don't think I'll ever fly again.
135 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:44 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: michaelje
The tinfoil comments are a bit played out

Looks like the original Freepers have your number.....

136 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:44 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
Try to develop some original material next time.
137 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:44 PM PST by michaelje
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In all likelyhood this was an accident, but common the media is doing a horrible job in reporting. First they bring in old NTSB guys who state opinion as fact and when they get to inteview current ntsb guys they ask lame questions they already know. I dont claim to be a famous news reporter but i took high school journalism, and teens could do a better job. They news is saying it is likly a jet wake problem, but common this airplane isnt going to fall apart, but that jet wake could be the straw that broke the cammals back. Who knows, we cant get the truth, only BS spin from the govt who wants to get a quick explaination.
138 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:45 PM PST by RHINO369
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To: michaelje
Spoken like a true mental-midget.....
139 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:50 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: motor_racer
Freepers might want to look into something called "Liquid Metal Embrittlement" agent. It can be put into a felt tip pen, and when applied it changes the metal structure, making it brittle, weak, and likely to fail from normal operating loads. Potentially a dangerous sabotage weapon. Search the net and you can find articles, including one published in The Futurist in 1989 (sorry I don't have a link) specifically on the subject of terrorism.

From http://www.wfs.org/cetron89.htm

Reprinted from THE FUTURIST, July-August 1989
The Growing Threat of Terrorism

By Marvin J. Cetron

-- snip --

Chemical and biological weapons. Chemical weapons range from old-fashioned poison in the water and nerve gas to a new Liquid Metal Embrittlement agent (LME). Applied with a felt-tip type pen, LME is a clear, invisible substance that changes the chemical structure of a metal so that it is no longer resilient and flexible. The result: The metal can fracture under stress. Trucks, airplanes, or bridges would be vulnerable to catastrophic failure without advance warning...

140 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:50 PM PST by RonDog
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