Posted on 11/12/2001 7:40:57 PM PST by Freedom of Speech Wins
Monday Nov. 12, 2001; 11:34 p.m. EST
Former NTSB Official Doubts Accident Caused Flt. 587 Crash
Aviation expert and former National Transportation & Safety Board official Vernon Grose said late Monday that he's increasingly skeptical that the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 was purely accidental.
"I am backing away from the ready idea that this is simply an accident," Grose told Fox News Channel's John Scott.
The veteran air crash prober said that he questions the sequence in which the plane broke up over Jamaica Bay before slamming into a residential area in Rockaway, Queens.
"Photographs you've already shown tonigt (indicate) the vertical stabilizer of the aircraft with the American Airlines insignia right on it (fell into) Jamaica Bay long before the engine falls off in Queens," he told Scott.
Grose said that if the vertical stabilizer detached from Flt. 587 over Jamaica Bay, which the plane traversed before plummeting to the ground in Rockaway, it suggested that catastrophic engine failure alone may not have caused the crash.
"No, I don't think that's the situation at all," he told FNC.
"The engine that came free, which apparently was the number 1 left engine, and crashed on land - that was well after the vertical stabilizer was detached from the aircraft and that tells me that somehow..... that the airplane was progressively disintegrating, not just losing an engine and then diving into the ground."
"Earlier today I thought it was simply the loss of an engine that caused this," Grose told FNC. "But I'm not convinced now.... I am becoming more skeptical."
Sure.
Given the poor quality of our educational system, coupled with 'mainstream media spin' and a willing body of pro-government lemmings, it's as easy as peeing off a pier...
Interesting and perceptive statements. It'll also be interesting to see what happens with this good man over the next few days and weeks since he isn't adhering to what seems to be the party line. If there's a coverup, he'll be pressured to change or "clarify" his story, credibility attacked, marginalized, not allowed to talk at hearings, etc.
Yeah, it could be the usual periodic civil air disaster. But the US has a lot of airports, airplanes, places to crash, and days to do it on. This one happened in NYC, out of JFK, with a large fuel-laden aircraft, in a populated area, and two months almost to the day after 9-11 (the Julian calendar; the Islamic calendar might be more exact) with terrorists known to be into symbolic anniversaries.
It's good to keep asking questions. The stock market doesn't believe in coincidences and you shouldn't either.
The Israeli flight definitely was shot down by a missile. The holes in the aircraft that they originally thought were bullet holes were made by large "ball bearing" type shrapnel used in the missile's warhead, plus I believe they also found missile wreckage nearby.
'CONTAINER BOY' A CANUCK\SUSPECTED TERRORIST CARRYING VALID CANADIAN PASSPORT WHEN SEIZED BY ITALIANS
Date: 10-27-2001;
The Ottawa Sun;
Author: PHILIP LEE-SHANOK AND MARIA MCCLINTOCK
AUTHORITIES have determined a well-equipped stowaway, nicknamed "Container Boy" by Solicitor General Lawrence MacAulay, is a Canadian citizen.
Egyptian-born Amid Farid Rizk, 43, being held in Italy as a suspected terrorist, has a legitimate Canadian passport.
"His documents are legitimate. He was issued a valid Canadian passport which he was travelling on," said Foreign Affairs spokesman Reynald Doiron.
But Rizk didn't bother showing his Canadian passport at any port of entry.
MacAulay had little to say about Rizk yesterday, except that the RCMP is working on the case with Italian police.
"This is a strange mode of transportation this individual took. It's obvious that we have to be very sharp," said MacAulay.
Rizk was found in a container on a cargo ship that had left Port Said, Egypt. After five days at sea, the ship stopped in the port city of Gioia Tauro, in southern Italy, before it was due to embark on the three-week trip to Montreal.
SUSPECT SOUNDS
An Italian police officer investigating sounds from a sealed container on a docked ship found Rizk. Police found a computer, cameras and cellphones in the container. Rizk reportedly also had various aviation- related documents, including an aircraft mechanic's licence, airport security passes and maps of airports in Canada, Egypt and Thailand.
"He is being held on suspicion of belonging to an international terrorist organization although they haven't specified which one," said Doiron, who wouldn't confirm reports Rizk lives in Montreal. He did say Foreign Affairs has contacted Rizk's Canadian next-of-kin and a Farid Rizk is listed at a residence in Montreal.
Rizk has been held by authorities in Palmi, Italy, since Oct. 19. and could be held for renewable six-month periods as the investigation continues.
It is Italy's first use of a new anti-terrorism law passed after the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington.
"Foreign Affairs will ensure he gets due process and a fair trial. We will also keep his family apprised of any developments," said Doiron.
Tory House Leader Peter MacKay called for the government to re- establish the ports police which was disbanded years ago.
"We know that in Vancouver and Halifax there are hundreds of thousands of cargo containers that go unchecked every year," said MacKay.
PHILIP LEE-SHANOK AND MARIA MCCLINTOCK, SUN MEDIA, 'CONTAINER BOY' A CANUCK\SUSPECTED TERRORIST CARRYING VALID CANADIAN PASSPORT WHEN SEIZED BY ITALIANS. , The Ottawa Sun, 10-27-2001, pp 4.
The Clinton Crime Gang obviously employ some excellent aircraft saboteurs. I am NOT SAYING that is what happened here. No info yet. But I am saying, the people who worked on the plane or were near it should be checked out not just from employment backgrounds, but from every possible security background possible, including CHECKING OUT BANK ACCOUNTS AND POSSIBLE MAFIA CONNECTIONS.
That's it! The Twilight Zone gremlin is back!
I don't want to get into a TWA800 tinfoil hat party, but have you seen the video? I'd be happy to send you a copy.
When has this happened before? I have NEVER EVER heard of ANYTHING like this happening before.
The Concorde was done in by a simple piece of debris lying on a runway, but they were able to find that debris.
Engines doing 200 knots don't just reverse themselves and start pulling in the other direction. The turbines would have to slow down, and then kick into reverse.
I have traveled a lot in my career. I can certainly understand the possibilitity.
I used to enjoy parking under the runway at Lambert during lunch time. It was neat being so close to the planes taking off. You can get so close that you feel you can throw a soda can and hit the plane during take off.
I never put this type of information on a public forum because I didn't want to give some wackos ideas. However, I am sure I am not telling them anything they don't already know.
My solution to this problem: DEPORTATION NOW!!!
if you've not heard it before, welcome to FR !
FRegards/tomkat
Take off was uneventful toward the north west.
Plane circled around to the south/southeast and out over Jamacia Bay as it continued to ascend.
Most witnesses give accounts of a loud explosion, only one or two people say they did not hear an explosion.
One account describes papers flying from above where the plane had traveled.
Many ground witness state a fire where the left wing met the body of the craft.
One account describes seeing part of the tail section falling into the bay. (News was not reporting anything about pieces in the bay at that time.)
Another account describes a piece of wing falling from the plane. (tail piece maybe?)
Plane pitched and fell into a complete dose dive.
Left engine is located in the front of a gas station close to the impact crater.
Aviation experts say the pilot could possibly NOT know something had gone wrong with the engine.
Aviation experts clarify that this type of plane cannot dump fuel. (Why were people discussing a possibility of dumped fuel?)
Technical Data recorder recovered from crash site.
Tail stabilizer recovered from the Bay.
Voice Data Recorder recovered from crash site.
Now, when I try to visualize all of this, I can only imagine an onboard explosion near the engine, but not within the engine. What mechanical failure could cause a fire so near the body of the plane? And on thinking further about the lack of communication from the cockpit about something gone wrong...this must have happened VERY suddenly. Could the crew really not know that meanwhile back in the passenger area, the plane has started to fall apart? It really makes me wonder if they were not shot down.
Absolutely. I think I gave the wrong impression when I tried to make it brief. What I meant was that conflicting eyewitness accounts tend to be used as fodder by the feebies and the media who attempt to prove their point or agenda. With regard to TWA Flight 800, I think that the most important eyewitness accounts were ignored and even some eyewitnesses were made to sound literally "incredible" or just this side of hysterical.
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