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Jesus Christ: The Sum and Subtance of Biblical Prophecy
Modern Reformation Magazine ^ | September/October 2001 edition | Kim Riddlebarger

Posted on 10/10/2001 5:20:52 AM PDT by sola gracia

Jesus Christ:
The Sum and Substance of Biblical Prophecy

By Kim Riddlebarger

Many Christians assume that only limited sections of the Scriptures contain any reference to "future things." This outlook, in effect, limits eschatology to those issues relating to the timing of the Rapture, to speculation about political events in the Middle East and Israel, as well as to the debate about the nature of Christ's millennial reign upon the earth after his return. This reasoning produces the ironic situation in which those who speak most frequently about eschatology actually have the least to say. By limiting eschatology and Bible prophecy to the Rapture and the millennium, and by tying Old Testament prophecies to literal future fulfillments, the proper place of Christ's role in biblical prophecy is eclipsed.

It is important to step back from the details of Bible prophecy and look carefully at the big picture. We must gaze upon the entire panorama of redemption from a distance. The story begins with creation. Next, we consider the fall of the human race into sin as the backdrop for redemptive history. Redemptive history is exactly what its name implies -- the biblical account of God delivering his people from the guilt and power of sin resulting from the fall. Then, we look ahead to see the final goal. But the end is not merely paradise regained. The final goal is paradise glorified! As William Dumbrell reminds us, "In very broad terms the biblical sweep is from creation to the new creation by way of redemption, which is, in effect, the renewing of creation." This sweeping vision is set out in the opening chapters of God's self-revelation. Genesis 1 and 2 speak of creation and paradise, while Genesis 3 speaks of the fall into sin and paradise lost. From the moment paradise is lost and the curse is pronounced upon the race, God is already promising final redemption (Gen. 3:15). We need not wait until the end of the story to learn that God's mercy and justice will triumph over human sin and its consequences for God's people. Even before the specific details in the drama of redemptive history begin to unfold, the outcome is certain. God has decreed that he will redeem his people from their sin and that one day he will renew his creation. When all is said and done, no hint or trace of the stain of sin will remain. No longer will there be any curse.

To understand Christ's role in biblical prophecy, we must understand something of the various covenants that are found throughout both testaments. Covenants between kings and their servants formed the basis of much of daily life in the ancient near-eastern world, especially in matters legal and financial. This was certainly true for ancient Israel. From a biblical perspective, covenants take on even greater importance, since Israel's king is the great king, and the nation is his chosen vassal because of his sovereign will.

When considered in the context of the Old Testament, a covenant may be defined as "a relationship under sanctions." In each of the Old Testament covenants there are two parties involved, God and his people, or their divinely chosen representative such as Abraham or Moses. In these covenantal relationships, the two parties relate to each other in terms of blessing and curse, the outcome depending upon faithfulness to the terms set forth by the covenants. Like a contract, when terms of the covenant are fulfilled, the servant receives the blessing promised by the great king. But should the obligations of the covenant not be met, the covenant curse, in the form of previously agreed-upon sanctions between God and his people, is imposed.

The major covenants in the Old Testament take two basic forms, covenants of promise and covenants of law. In covenants of promise and blessing, God himself swears the covenant oath to fulfill all the terms and conditions of the covenant. In covenants of works or law, the people of God swear the oath of ratification.

The most prominent case of a covenant of promise is God's covenant with Abraham as recorded in Genesis 15. It is God who sovereignly approaches Abram and swears on oath to him -- "Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward." As Abram falls into a deep sleep, he is given a vision of a smoking firepot passing through butchered halves of various animals, a goat, a ram, a dove, and a pigeon. The implication of the vision is clear to someone like Abraham, steeped in ancient covenants and rituals of ratification. If Jehovah fails to be Abram's great reward and shield, the covenant curse, which is graphically pictured by the severed animals, is to fall upon Jehovah himself, the one who swears the oath and initiates the covenant rituals.

When the dream ends, we are told, "on that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram" (v. 18). Notice that in this particular covenant which God makes with Abram, it is God who swears the oath of ratification, making this covenant a covenant of promise. As is typical in such ancient covenants, the Lord also defines the geographic boundaries within which the terms of the covenant apply. This explains why the account of the ratification of this covenant in Genesis 15 includes the list of peoples who reside between the two great rivers, the Nile and the Euphrates. This promise of a land was gloriously fulfilled when Joshua led the people of God back into Canaan (Josh. 1:2–9). As Joshua puts it: "So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their forefathers, and they took possession of it and settled there" (Josh. 21:43; cf. also 1 Kings 4:20–21).

Perhaps the clearest illustration of the latter type of covenant -- a covenant of law -- is found in Exodus 24, in which the people of God, not Jehovah, swear the covenant oath of ratification. According to the amazing account we find in Exodus 24, Jehovah called Moses, Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, along with seventy elders, up to Mount Sinai where the group was to worship him at a distance. But Moses -- the covenant mediator anticipating the true covenant mediator, Jesus Christ -- was to approach God alone. "When Moses went and told the people all of the Lord's words and laws, they responded with one voice. 'Everything the Lord has said, we will do.' Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said (v. 7)." Unlike the covenant of promise that God made with Abram, in covenants of works/law, such as the covenant ratified at Sinai, God does not swear the oath of ratification. Rather, it is the people who do so. The covenant God made with Israel is ratified by his people, who by swearing their obedience on oath, will receive the promised blessings of the Mosaic covenant if they obey, or the covenant curses if they disobey. The particular blessings and curses associated with this covenant are spelled out in Deuteronomy 27–30.

With the distinction between these two kinds of covenants -- promise and law -- in mind, we can turn to the two overarching covenants -- the covenant of works/creation and the covenant of grace/redemption -- under which these individual covenants of law and promise are to be subsumed. This, too, is a very important point to keep in mind, because the covenant of works and the covenant of grace progressively unfold throughout the Old Testament. The way in which they do says a great deal about how we are to understand the eschatology of the Bible and why we must keep Christ at the center.

These two over-arching covenants enable us to see the continuity that exists between the individual covenants we find throughout the Old Testament. The covenant God makes with Abraham, and then subsequently with his descendants Isaac and Jacob, and then with Israel, are not isolated covenants with no organic connection with what goes before or after. Rather, the particular covenants that God makes with his people are individual and repeated ratifications of the one covenant of grace, which is first promised in Eden, and then later ratified with Abraham, the father of all those who believe.

Seeing the essential continuity between these covenants is important at a number of levels. It prevents us from mistakenly seeing the Old Testament as essentially Law and the New Testament as essentially Gospel. Rather, there is Law and Gospel in both testaments. This covenantal structure also enables us to safeguard the clear teaching of the New Testament, that there is but one Gospel (Gal. 3:8), one plan of salvation (Eph. 1:4–6), one covenant mediator (1 Tim. 2:5), and one common faith (Eph. 4:4–6). This also enables us to understand how the individual covenants in the Old Testament are often framed in terms of promise, while in the New, they are framed in terms of fulfillment. The individual covenants with Abraham, Moses, and David, as part of a larger covenantal structure, foreshadow that New Covenant ratified by the blood of Christ (Heb. 10:11–18). The redemptive events found throughout the Old Testament are unintelligible apart from this covenantal structure and emphasis upon God's promise of a coming redeemer, who is also the covenant mediator.

Therefore, as redemptive history begins to unfold, it is the first Adam -- the biological and federal representative of all humanity -- who fails to do as God has commanded under the terms of the covenant of works. It was the Lord God who said to Adam, "You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it, you will surely die" (Gen. 2:17). This covenant of works -- or as some Reformed writers speak of it, the "covenant of creation" -- lies at the very heart of redemptive history. Under the terms of this covenant, God demands perfect obedience from Adam, who will either obey the terms of the covenant and receive God's blessing, eternal life in a glorified Eden, or else fail to keep the covenant and bring the covenant sanction down upon himself, and all those whom he represents, namely, all of humanity. Adam's act of rebellion brings the curse of death upon the entire human race. This covenant of works is never subsequently abrogated in the Scriptures, a point empirically verified whenever death strikes. This covenant also undergirds the teaching of Scripture, which states that for any of Adam's fallen children to be saved, someone must fulfill all the terms of the covenant of works without so much as a single infraction, in thought, in word, or in deed (Matt. 5:48; 1 Pet. 1:16).

Although some argue that there is no such covenant between God and Adam because the phrase "covenant of works" or "covenant of creation" does not explicitly appear in the biblical text, not only are all the elements of a covenant present in God's dealings with Adam but the later biblical writers refer back to the account of Eden in precisely these terms. The prophet Hosea tells us that Israel will come under God's judgment, because "like Adam, they have broken my covenant." In Romans 5:18–21, the perfect obedience required by this covenant is spelled out, in part, when Paul writes that sinners are declared righteous on the condition of Christ's obedience on their behalf. Here, the critical question is simply this: "Obedient to what?" Paul's answer is that Jesus Christ is perfectly obedient to that same covenant which the first Adam disobeyed. The resurrection is proof that Christ fulfilled the terms of this covenant, because after laying down his life for our sins, God raised him up, Lord of life (Rom. 4:25).

Since Adam is the federal head of all those countless men and women who will spring from his loins, once he disobeys the covenant of works, he plunges the entire human race into the guilt and consequences of sin. Although the curse subjects all of humanity, as well as all of creation, to the bondage of the guilt and power of sin, God has decreed to redeem both his people and his world. From the very outset, then, the unfolding drama of redemption will be one in which God seeks to rescue men and women from the guilt of Adam's sin, as well as undo the consequences of Adam's act of rebellion upon all of creation.

The very fact that God demands perfect obedience from his creatures, even from the beginning of the drama of redemption, necessitates the coming of a second Adam who will be obedient unto death (Phil. 2:8), and who will become "sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Cor. 5:21). The Fall necessitates the coming of a redeemer, a redeemer who must fulfill the terms of the original covenant of works which Adam had failed to keep. In addition, the redeemer himself must establish a covenant of grace in which God will deliver Adam's fallen children. Yet he must do so without sacrificing his justice to manifest his love for lost and fallen sinners. This is why the promised redeemer will die upon a cross, something beyond the realm of imagination for an Old Testament believer looking for a deliverer to come. This truth becomes all the more remarkable when we consider that when Jesus Christ dies upon the cross, he bears in his own body those very same covenant curses, which God showed Abram in Genesis 15 (Gal. 3:13).

When God placed Adam under the covenant of works, Adam failed to obey. Adam and his family were cast from Eden and never allowed to return. This recurring theme of God making a covenant, the subsequent disobedience of his people, the consequences of the covenant curse resulting in his people being cast from the land of promise, resurfaces throughout in the drama of redemption. At Mount Sinai, God placed Israel under the Law, epitomized by the Ten Commandments, in which were codified all of the requirements of the covenant of works. The commandments were written upon the heart because all of Adam's children bear God's divine image. But Israel, too, failed to keep God's commandments, which brought a curse upon the people in the form of the curse sanction of being removed from the land.

In his forbearance, God sent his prophets to call his disobedient people to repentance. But Israel repeatedly showed contempt for God by increasing her sins and killing God's messengers. Like Adam, the nation came under God's covenant judgment and was cast from the land. This time, God's people were not cast from Eden. They were cast from Canaan, that very land that God had promised to Abraham. Adam had failed. Now Israel had failed. A redeemer was still needed, who would fulfill the covenant of works. "For what the Law was powerless to do ... God did by sending his own son in the likeness of sinful man" (Rom. 8:3).

All of this is important to keep in mind because it means that the history of redemption is the progressive unfolding of a covenant of works and a covenant of grace throughout the whole of Scripture. These two covenants -- the essence of what is known as covenant theology -- will continue to resurface throughout the eschatology of both testaments. It is in the progressive development of these two covenants that the person of Jesus Christ -- the only mediator between God and man and that redeemer promised throughout the whole Old Testament -- is revealed.

This understanding explains why the coming redeemer is revealed as a second Adam. He is not only the covenant mediator, but the one who as the new representative of God's people is also Lord over all creation. It is the second Adam who ushers in a new creation when he rises again from the dead that first Easter morning. Therefore, it is in the person and work of Jesus Christ, that the seemingly diverse themes of covenant and new creation, join perfectly together. When the second Adam justifies the many through his own perfect obedience, he does so in terms of the new and better covenant, a covenant in which God will declare sinners as righteous because of the merits of Jesus Christ and in which God fulfills all of the promises that he made to Abraham. As the Apostle Paul puts it in his second letter to the Corinthians, to participate in Christ's reconciling work is likewise to participate in the new creation (2 Cor. 5:17). This new creation, which is nothing less than a paradise glorified, is also that New Jerusalem, which John depicts as follows: "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and the lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face" (Rev. 22:3–4). Once again, God and humanity will dwell together just as they did in Eden, only this time "for ever and ever."

The connection between the new creation and the covenant of grace is important to keep in mind. The one who makes all things new, Jesus Christ, is also the mediator of the covenant of grace. Therefore, the new creation and the covenant of grace are forever joined together in the person and work of Jesus Christ who has died for our sins and was raised for our justification. This reminds us that the basic panorama of redemptive history is creation, fall, and redemption. And creation, fall, and redemption play themselves out in redemptive history in terms of God's dealing with his creatures in terms of the covenants of both testaments. This means that Jesus Christ is the sum and substance of all biblical prophecy.


Dr. Kim Riddlebarger is a graduate of California State University in Fullerton (B.A.), Westminster Theological Seminary in California (M.A.R.), and Fuller Theological Seminary (Ph.D.). Kim has contributed chapters to books such as Power Religion: The Selling Out of the Evangelical Church, Roman Catholicism: Evangelical Protestants Analyze What Unites & Divides Us, and Christ The Lord: The Reformation & Lordship Salvation, and is currently the pastor of Christ Reformed Church in Anaheim, California.



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To: Matchett-PI
It is a dangerous mentality indeed, that believes absolute Truth is determined by human beings.

MPI..there is a philosphy of man taught for the last 20 years that place man in the center...that is where the belief that we determine truth comes from.The generation raised on situation ethics knows who should be thrown out of the life boat,and they are not loath to do it.

They also can proclaim with confidence how God views HIS world..they can search for similarities where there are NONE and formulate a religious "similarity" strong enough to build a coalition religion on ..

Rodney King said it best "Can't we all just get along?",he spoke for all those that would compromise the Truth for a lie "Ye shall be as gods"......

21 posted on 10/10/2001 10:47:10 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: sola gracia
Christ is the master key required to unlock the Word Bill Powell Bill Powell 2 265 1996-03-13T21:13:00Z 2001-10-10T17:53:00Z 2001-10-10T17:53:00Z 1 1104 6293 32256 52 12 7728 9.3821 6 pt 6 pt 0

Christ is the master key required to unlock the Word. He makes known God. He is the subject of the whole Word from Genesis 3.15 to Revelation 22.21. He is the great design of the whole scripture, like a red thread that binds together the whole Word of God.

 

Hebrews 2:14                How did the devil get that power?

Luke 4:4-8                     It was delivered unto him

Romans 8:20                 It was delivered unto him by reason of him that subjected it - Adam

Genesis 1:26,28            Dominion given to Adam, Adam delivered it to the devil

                                    II Corinthians 4:4; I Corinthians 2:8; Ephesians 2:2

Genesis 3:15                 God’s solution to Adam’s treason was the promised seed of the woman.

Luke 1:35                      The woman’s seed

 

Everything from Genesis 3:15 through Revelation 22:21 deals with God making known the promised seed of the woman necessary to redeem man. Buy back that which had been transferred to another’s ownership.

Romans 10:9-17            The scriptures make known Jesus Christ, the messiah

Luke 4:16-21                 “As his custom (manner) was..”

Acts 17:2,3                   “As his manner was..”

People use the scriptures to show that you should have better ethics, be loyal to a certain man or denomination, to prove certain beliefs regarding life, death, birth or marriage. In the scriptures man thinks many things: John 5:39

John 1:45                      The scriptures make known Jesus Christ, the messiah.

Luke 24:25-27,32,44,45 “As his manner was..”.

John 20:30, 31               These are written so might believe that Jesus is the Christ.

Acts 8:27-37                  Philip making known Christ from the scriptures.

I Peter 1:10-12               Romans 16:25,26; Ephesians 3:8,9; Colossians 1:25-28

Examples:

1.       Acts 2:32,33 & 1:8               Why?, So we could be witnesses unto Him, not some other man or club.

2.       II Corinthians 5:19-21            Ambassadors for Christ with the Word of reconciliation “He became..”

3.       I Thessalonians 1:8,9           A local church that followed the examples of Paul, Philip and Christ.

4.       II Corinthians 3:18; 4:6          The right way - looking to Christ, not to Moses.

5.       Colossians 2:18,19              The wrong way - not holding the head (Christ is the head of the body).

 

The Bible is not enjoyed because it is not understood. Failing to see the one great subject, they fall into confusion and develop various theories for holy living. The scriptures make known Christ - who he was, who he is, and who he will be unto us.

Hosea 11.1                    Literally: called Israel out of the bondage of Egypt. Prophetic: JC coming out of Egypt. Matthew 2.13-15 Many times a prophecies fulfillment is not very clear until the time of the fulfillment draws closer and closer.

I Corinthians 5:7 Christ our Passover. Cf. Exodus 12:1ff

Galatians 3:16               Abraham’s seed.

Genesis 3.15, the promised seed of the women. The sufferings and glory of Joseph 37:8

Exodus 12, the Passover Lamb; the True Priest and the Tabernacle. The sufferings and glory of Moses. 2:14 - Luke 19:14

Leviticus 21.10-15, the High Priest; the offerings. The fourfold view of his death as the gospels give a four fold view of his life.

Numbers the Star to Rise of Jacob24.17-19/Luke 1:78, II Peter 1:19, Revelation 2:28, 22:16; the manna, 11.6, 7, 9; the Rock, 20.8-11. The serpent lifted up for healing 21:9/John 3:14,15, the rock that followed 20:11/ First Corinthians 10:4, The manna, the true bread from heaven 11:7-9/John 6:57,58

Deuteronomy, the two laws, love God and love your neighbor; 18.15, 18, the True Prophet and the rock and refuge of his people. 32:4, 33:27

Joshua 5.13-15, the Captain of the Lord of Hosts and Rahabs scarlet cord 2:12-20 - the protection in the time of trouble.

Judges 13.1-24, the Covenant Angel named Wonderful, or the Covenant Protector.

Ruth, the kinsman redeemer, the true Boaz..

Samuel, the root and offspring of David(Revelation 22.16) and the sufferings and Glory of David.

Kings, the greater than the temple(Matt 12.6). and the greater than Solomon

2 Chronicles 22.10-23.3, the king's son rescued out from among the dead.

Ezra-Nehemiah, the rebuilder.

Esther, savior of God's people.

Job 9.33, the daysmen., the redeemer coming again to the earth that we shall see without this flesh.

Psalms, the song.

Proverbs, the wisdom of God.

Ecclesiastes 7.28, one among a thousand.

Song of Solomon, the bridegroom of the bride.

Isaiah 11:1, Jacob's branch.

Jeremiah 23.6, our righteousness the righteous branch.

Lamentations, the unbeliever's judgment.

Ezekiel 34.23, the true shepherd, and The prince.

Daniel 2.34, the stone that became the head of the corner.

Hosea 6.3, the latter rain; Hosea 11.1 the son to be called out of Egypt.

Joel 3.17-21, God's dwelling place in Zion.

Amos 9.11, the raiser of David's tabernacle.

Obadiah 17, the deliverer on Mount Zion.

Jonah 2.9, our salvation.

Micah 2.13, the Lord of Kings.

Nahum 1.7, the stronghold in the time of trouble.

Habakkuk 3.18, 19, our joy and confidence.

Zephaniah 3.17, our mighty Lord.

Haggai 2.7, the desire of the nations.

Zechariah 3.8, our servant - the branch. The returning Lord with his feet on the mount of Olives

Malachi 4.2, the sun of righteousness. And the messenger of the covenant.

Matthew, Jehovah's Messiah; the King.

Mark, Jehovah's Servant.

Luke, Jehovah's Man.

John, Jehovah's Son.

Acts, the Gift of Holy Spirit.

Romans, the believer's justification and life

Corinthians, the believer's sanctification.

Galatians, the believer's righteousness.

Ephesians, the believer's heavenly standing.

Philippians, the believer's self-adequacy.

Colossians, the believer's completeness.

Thessalonians, the believer's soon glorification.

2 Timothy 2.2, the faithful men.

Titus, the fellow laborer.

Philemon, the love of a believer.

Hebrews, the High Priest for Sin.

James 2.8, the Royal Law.

Peter, the Pastor.

1 John 4.17, as we are.

Jude, the Beloved.

Revelation 19.16, the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

Who is this Jesus Christ?

He is the doom of the Adversary, foretold in Genesis 3.15, and accomplished in Rev 20.10.

He is the no night of Revelation 22.5, of which Genesis 1.2 is the night.

He is the light of Revelation 21.13, of which Genesis 1.16, 17 is the sun and moon.

He is the no more death, neither sorrow nor crying of Revelation 21.4, of which Genesis 3.16, 17 is sorrow, suffering, and death.

He is the no more curse of Revelation  22.3, of which Genesis 3.17 is the curse.

He is the welcome home to Paradise of Revelation 22.2, of which Genesis 3.22-24 is the banishment of paradise.

He is the light to shine out of darkness (Genesis 1 and II Corinthians 4:6)

He is the new creation  II Corinthians 5:17

He is the last Adam I Corinthians 15:45, Romans 5:14

He is the seed of Abraham Galatians 3:16

He is Abraham’s sacrifice Hebrews 11:

He is Abel's sacrifice, Genesis 4.4.

He is Abraham's ram, Genesis 22.13.

He is Isaac's well, Genesis 26.25.

He is Jacob's ladder, Genesis 28.12.

He is Judah's scepter, Genesis 49.10.

He is Moses' rod, Exodus 4.20.

He is Joshua's ram's horn, Joshua 6.4-13.

He is Samuel's horn of oil, 1 Samuel 16.13.

He is David's slingshot, 1 Samuel 17.40, 50.

He is Hezekiah's sundial, Isaiah 38.8.

He is Elijah's mantle, 1 Kings 19.13-19, 2 Kings 2.8-14.

He is Elisha's staff, 2 Kings 4.29.

He's Jobs prayer, Job 16.17.

He is Isaiah's fig tree, Isaiah 34.4.

He is Ezekiel's wheel.

He is Daniel's Jerusalem window, Daniel 6.10.

He is Malachi's storehouse, Malachi 3.10

Christ is the believer's redemption, knowledge, wisdom, completely completely completeness, his righteousness, his sanctification, his justification,  his all in all in all.

He is The Bright and Morning Star, Revelation 22.16. 

JESUS CHRIST IS: He is your welcome home to paradise, the bright and morning star, God’s only begotten son, my Lord and my saviour and soon to be returning one as King of Kings and Lord of Lords..


22 posted on 10/10/2001 10:59:33 AM PDT by artios
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To: Matchett-PI
It is a dangerous mentality indeed, that believes absolute Truth is determined by human beings.

He who walks the middle of the road follows a yellow stripe made by other men!

23 posted on 10/10/2001 11:00:13 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
That is great if it works for you, but if you think for one ignorant minute that there is only one and only one way to heaven check your high ground solid rock.

It says in the Quran that Christians, Muslims and Jews will be in the paradise. It also says they will be in the hell-fire.

I worship the God who created the heavens, the Earth, and me. The most merciful. Did Jesus create the world, or you? peace.

24 posted on 10/10/2001 11:11:24 AM PDT by Middle of the Road
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To: artios
Excellent synopsis. Thank You.
25 posted on 10/10/2001 11:17:17 AM PDT by lockeliberty
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To: CCWoody
You are so way off Woody and I'm afraid you don't understand their views correctly I'm trying to educate you on their views.

Muslims believe in ONE GOD nothing equal to, or greater than HE. Muslims believe in ALL the revealed books. Muslims belive in Angels and an afterlife that is works based in the same sense as Christianity......What I mean is you believe (because you wrote it) That we will all be judged for our DEEDS good and bad.

Aren't all religions work or "deeds" based? It's the ultimate battle of freewill.

26 posted on 10/10/2001 11:17:57 AM PDT by Middle of the Road
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To: Middle of the Road
I would encourage you to read this.
27 posted on 10/10/2001 11:24:37 AM PDT by lockeliberty
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To: Matchett-PI
Well you really missed the point I was trying to make and I'll take the blame for that.

What I meant was if the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran and any other revealed book(book from GOD)say the same thing then I think that is the absolute truth.

28 posted on 10/10/2001 11:26:02 AM PDT by Middle of the Road
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To: sola gracia
bump for this evening's read
29 posted on 10/10/2001 11:28:50 AM PDT by billbears
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To: artios
JESUS CHRIST IS: He is your welcome home to paradise, the bright and morning star, God’s only begotten son, my Lord and my saviour and soon to be returning one as King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Did Jesus(pbuh) create the heavens and the earth? Does Jesus(pbuh) make it rain? Does Jesus(pbuh) Give life or death without God? There was another prophet you might want to do some research on his name is Malachi he was another begotten son.

30 posted on 10/10/2001 11:31:34 AM PDT by Middle of the Road
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To: sola gracia
Thanks for the post. I saved the link. Cheers.
31 posted on 10/10/2001 11:32:39 AM PDT by Aggressive Calvinist
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To: sola gracia
Thanks. A lot of interesting thought in this. Bump for later reading.
32 posted on 10/10/2001 11:35:11 AM PDT by JenB
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To: Middle of the Road
That is great if it works for you, but if you think for one ignorant minute that there is only one and only one way to heaven check your high ground solid rock.

Ok, Checking....

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.
It says in the Quran that Christians, Muslims and Jews will be in the paradise. It also says they will be in the hell-fire.

It says in the Bible, which is the Word of God BTW, that every single person who is not sealed as Christ's own forever will be utterly destroyed.

Ephesians 1:13 In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise...

Romans 9:22-23 What if God, choosing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and this, that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, whom He had prepared before unto glory,

Isaiah 63:1-4 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah, this that is glorious in His apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? "I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save." Why art thou red in Thine apparel, and Thy garments like him that treadeth in the wine vat? "I have trodden the wine press alone; and of the people there was none with Me. For I will tread them in Mine anger and trample them in My fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon My garments, and I will stain all My raiment. For the day of vengeance is in Mine heart, and the year of My redeemed is come.

I worship the God who created the heavens, the Earth, and me. The most merciful. Did Jesus create the world, or you? peace.

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! Unfortunately, this will not save you.

You are so way off Woody and I'm afraid you don't understand their views correctly I'm trying to educate you on their views. Muslims believe in ONE GOD nothing equal to, or greater than HE. Muslims believe in ALL the revealed books. Muslims belive in Angels and an afterlife that is works based in the same sense as Christianity......What I mean is you believe (because you wrote it) That we will all be judged for our DEEDS good and bad.

It sounds very much like your views. And it is definitely not God's view as revealed through His only Word the Bible. True Christianity is not works based. True Christianity is all about God redeeming His own, according to His pleasure. It has nothing to do with my free will choice to believe or not to believe because (Romans 3:11) there are none that understands; there are none who seek after God. It is all about God working His wonder in me and then revealing Christ already in me.

Ephesians 1:4-14 He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

having predestined us to be His own adopted children by Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

to the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in His Beloved:

in Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,

wherein He hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence.

He hath made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself,

that in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him.

In Christ also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will,

that we, who first trusted in Christ, should be to the praise of His glory.

In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

which is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.

And unless you repent and cry unto the Jesus of the Bible to have mercy on you, you will be trampled in His fury.
33 posted on 10/10/2001 12:00:12 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: Middle of the Road
Did Jesus(pbuh) create the heavens and the earth? Does Jesus(pbuh) make it rain? Does Jesus(pbuh) Give life or death without God? There was another prophet you might want to do some research on his name is Malachi he was another begotten son.

Colossians 1:13-20

He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son,

in whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

For by Him were all things created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by Him and for Him.

And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

And He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He might have the preeminence.

For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell,

and having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself -- by Him, I say, whether they be things on earth or things in heaven.

My Jesus is Almighty God, the ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE ENDING who alone has the keys of Death and Hades (Revelation 1), and unless you repent of your beliefs you will have judged yourself unfit for Eternal Life (Acts 13:46).
34 posted on 10/10/2001 12:11:52 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: Middle of the Road
Aren't all religions work or "deeds" based? It's the ultimate battle of freewill.

P.S. the glorious and wonderful thing about my faith is that it is not works based:

Isaiah 30:15 For thus says the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel: "In returning and rest you shall be saved; In quietness and confidence shall be your strength."
Because I am willing to wait I can have this:
Psalm 16:11 You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

Psalm 30:11-12 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing; Thou hast put off my sackcloth and girded me with gladness, to the end that my glory may sing praise to Thee and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto Thee for ever.


35 posted on 10/10/2001 12:25:40 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
It sounds very much like your views. And it is definitely not God's view as revealed through His only Word the Bible

So now You are going a step further and saying that the Bible is the only word of God I sent you a personal note (for obvious reasons) and I guess I'll just leave it at that

36 posted on 10/10/2001 12:32:57 PM PDT by Middle of the Road
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To: CCWoody
It's sooooooo hard to stop. If you believe you are going to be judged, which you do, How is it not work based.

So what you are saying is Christians automatically go to heaven because they have accepted Jesus(pbuh) into their hearts,but everyone else has to be judged?

We will all be there on the Day of Judgement and we will ALL be JUDGED, which means its deeds based.

37 posted on 10/10/2001 12:38:20 PM PDT by Middle of the Road
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To: Middle of the Road
"That is great if it works for you, but if you think for one ignorant minute that there is only one and only one way to heaven check your high ground solid rock."

I guess that my Jesus is ignorant. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but through me" (John 14:6). There is only one way, and His name is Jesus, the Christ.

"Did Jesus create the world, or you?"

Yes, and yes!! Jesus is the Creator God, He is not just a prophet. (See John Chapter One)

38 posted on 10/10/2001 1:29:35 PM PDT by Jerry_M
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To: Middle of the Road
We will all be there on the Day of Judgement and we will ALL be JUDGED, which means its deeds based.

I believe you are correct. On the last day we will all be judged and it IS deeds based. We have a problem now. No one is perfect, yet we will all be judged by our deeds. This means that either no one will go to heaven or God must grade on a curve, right. That is the conclusion of other religions, that God must grade on a curve and overlook certain sins.

But Christianity is differant. The only way a sinner may be able to survive the day of judgement, is if someone who is perfectly righteous takes the punishment for those sins and the sinner receives credit for the righteous one's righteousness. Christ voluntarily received the punishment for our sins, therefore, on the day of judgement, we will be clothed in Christ's righteousness and not be subject to the wrath of God. We will be judged according to the deeds of Christ.

(Romans 4:25) [Jesus] "was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

(Romans 5:8-10, 19) "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.... For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

39 posted on 10/10/2001 1:38:52 PM PDT by Right_Wing_Mole_In_Seattle
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To: Middle of the Road
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:5-11)

Just who the heck is "Jesus(pbuh)"? One day you will stand before Jesus of Nazareth, the promised Messiah of Israel, and He will be your judge. He will condemn you for every time that you put your trust in "allah" or "mohammed", and refused to put your trust in Him, and Him alone. He is the God who created you, He is the God who has sustained you, he is the God who holds your life in His hands. He will reveal to you just what a filthy lie of the devil your "Quran" is, and how it is an abomination in His sight.

40 posted on 10/10/2001 1:41:15 PM PDT by Jerry_M
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