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OHIO: Angry smokers vow to fight cigarette bans
Associated Press ^ | 2-7-04 | John Seewer

Posted on 02/19/2004 11:48:22 AM PST by SheLion

Toledo bar owners find loophole to let patrons light up

TOLEDO — James Pierson sat at the corner of the bar with a cigarette in his hand and a court summons in his coat pocket.

The retired autoworker was charged about a month ago with violating the city’s ban on smoking in bars and restaurants.

That wasn’t stopping him from a beer and another cigarette.

"In reality, I’m breaking the law right now," said Pierson, 62, of Temperance, Mich. "Everybody should stand up for their rights."

Defiant smokers and tavern owners in cities where smoking has been outlawed are rising up to protest, staging "smokeins" and filing lawsuits to overturn clean-air ordinances.

"We’re trying every angle we can to get everyone on our side," said Jerry Zaspel, owner of Barb’s Westgate Inn, in Tacoma, Wash.

Driving smokers away will put him out of business, Zaspel said. "It’s not a smoking issue. It’s a survival issue," he said.

Some bar owners in Tacoma refused to put away their ashtrays before a judge threw out the ban Jan. 23. Supporters of the ordinance plan to appeal.

A husband and wife who ran a truck-stop restaurant in Tampa, Fla., wouldn’t kick out the smokers when a statewide ban on smoking began in July.

The stand won the hearts of smokers, but they lost their restaurant when the plaza’s owner evicted them in September for flouting the law.

Nonsmoking ordinances started becoming popular in the mid-1980s as grocery stores banned smoking and restaurants put in seating areas for nonsmokers.

A California law banning smoking in bars and restaurants in 1994 led to another surge in clean-air legislation.

There have been only a handful of victories for smoking-ban opponents.

City council members in Austin, Texas, overturned a ban on smoking in restaurants and bars in October after business owners said it could have a devastating economic impact.

Toledo bar owners have taken the fight against smoking bans a step further by creating a charity to take advantage of a loophole that allows smoking in private clubs and at private social functions.

"Usually it’s a very, very small minority who stands in defiance and it usually lasts about a month," said Josh Alpert, spokesman for Americans for Nonsmokers’ Rights.

"What’s happening in Toledo is probably the most creative," he said.

About 40 bar owners formed a nonprofit charity called "Taverns for Tots." They charge patrons $1 for a lifetime membership and promise to donate the fee and 1 percent of their gross receipts to children’s charities.

"It’s a very innovative, creative way of doing a charity, and yes, we can still allow smoking," said bar owner Bill Delaney. "Being innovative and creative — that’s the American way."

A federal judge has put a temporary stop to their plan and is expected to decide by the end of the month whether it can continue, but some of those trying to sidestep the ban still were allowing smoking.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Culture/Society; Government; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: addiction; andscorpions; antismokers; bans; butts; cigarettes; individualliberty; lawbreakers; lawmakers; maine; niconazis; professional; prohibitionists; pufflist; smokingbans; stinkyaddicts; taxes; tobacco; worldismyashtray
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To: ohioWfan
Well, I say fine. Fight this fight with the small minority of smokers, and alienate those of us who don't. You'll lose.

When YOU leave ME alone, I WIN!


101 posted on 02/22/2004 7:12:15 AM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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To: SheLion; ohioWfan
P.S., SheLion, OhioWfan is a good egg....she wasn't insulting you personally, that's not her style. I think what she was stating was her strong dislike of the smell of smoke, but support for the wrongness of the bans....methinks you may be have taken her remarks a bit on the defensive side....we're all on the same side here.
102 posted on 02/22/2004 7:14:51 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: SheLion
They are raiding bars sending three to eight cop cars to each raid. While robberies of convenience stores are on the rise they are after smokers. This city is run by anti business socialist democrats and a couple of RINOS.
This is a union town and they blame Bush for the lack of jobs in Toledo.
There are jobs in the surrounding area where the Dems are not in control. Businesses will not locate here and the ones that are here are leaving. The educated people are moving to the suburbs so they don't have to put up with the idiots that run this city. As for me soon as I am an RN, my wife and kids, and I are leaving this socialist hole; for the rest of my family has already left.
103 posted on 02/22/2004 7:16:47 AM PST by Total Package
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To: nicmarlo
But, if so many people truly dislike or are allergic to smoke, then why hadn't any non-smoking establishments arisen over the past 20 years supplying this "demand" without having to resort to the Nazi legilation forcing businesses to become non-smoking? (we already know the answer).

Exactly! I believed the smoking and non-smoking sections worked just fine. Everyone got along. And many non-smokers would sit in the smoking section for a meal when a restaurant was busy. The non-smokers didn't care. They just wanted to EAT!

Along comes the paid professional anti-smokers, and they started putting seeds of doubt out to the general public. The business owners didn't think it would REALLY happen to them, and life went on. Now, here we are......5 states that have "forced" restaurant owners and bar owners into going smoke free, and the future doesn't look so good.

And we all know that employees go to a bar/tavern for a job, they understand that there will be smoking. If they aren't happy with that, surely they can find a nice restaurant which IS smoke free. This government forced ban is almost like a sin to me.

When the STATE takes over a small business owner, who is in the states sites next? It gives me the shivers.

104 posted on 02/22/2004 7:17:42 AM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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To: Total Package; SheLion
Businesses will not locate here and the ones that are here are leaving...

Repeat this for upstate/central New York....absolutely no difference. The liberals are ruining America and American life.

105 posted on 02/22/2004 7:18:14 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: ohioWfan; SheLion; Michael.SF.; nicmarlo
Morning, folks...........

I think we need to call a bit of a truce here. The flat nature of internet communication somethimes leads to simple misunderstandings that excalate totally out of proportion and the original misunderstanding gets lost in the fray.

I understand perfectly She Lion catching on to the "stink" remarks.......she and I have for so long been slapped with that slam, all over the internet - it is a very sore subject for both of us.

Personally I react to that comment in one of 3 ways - sometime I take it for the gratuitous slap it is intended as and I go into dog with a bone mode, sometimes I simply ignore it without seeing the full message, but lately what I have tried to do, and often succeed, is to see the whole picture of where the person is coming from.

I perfectly understand that some people do not care for the smell of tobacco smoke, or have a health problem with it, and that is perfectly understandable and I respect that. Unfortunately there have been so many people of late who believe that is as good a reason as any to force everyone else to cater to their wishes.

On the other hand there are plenty of non-smokers who do not like the smell, but understand that this issue goes beyond just smoking - they see the bigger picture and those folks are the ones that deserve a great deal of thanks and respect from us who have been fighting these battles for a long time.

If more people, smokers and non-smokers, saw this as just the small part of the bigger picture that it is, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So for all you non-smokers that don't like the way tobacco smoke smells, but agree these laws, ordinances and regulations have gone to far....I say a heartfelt thank you.
106 posted on 02/22/2004 7:19:09 AM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: greasepaint
The city of Toledo is run by democrats and two rinos
The state is run by Republicans and has past a CCW.
107 posted on 02/22/2004 7:21:31 AM PST by Total Package
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To: Gabz; ohioWfan; SheLion; Michael.SF.
So for all you non-smokers that don't like the way tobacco smoke smells, but agree these laws, ordinances and regulations have gone to far....I say a heartfelt thank you.

Great post, Gabz. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.

108 posted on 02/22/2004 7:21:37 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
I read in USA Today that a bar owner in N.Y. , has leased a huge stretch limo, and parks it in front of his establishment every evening, and has turned it into a smoking lounge!! The authorities haven't found a reason to charge him with a crime yet. LOL!
109 posted on 02/22/2004 7:23:10 AM PST by forward
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To: forward
LOL....but really, all of this is just insanity...
110 posted on 02/22/2004 7:25:17 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Total Package
There are jobs in the surrounding area where the Dems are not in control. Businesses will not locate here and the ones that are here are leaving. The educated people are moving to the suburbs so they don't have to put up with the idiots that run this city. As for me soon as I am an RN, my wife and kids, and I are leaving this socialist hole; for the rest of my family has already left.

That's all we are hearing today............The Economy The Economy The Economy!  The lawmakers are talking out of both sides of their mouths here.  If they want a good economy, why are they shutting out 25-30% of the people who choose to smoke?  That's 25-30% loss of revenue.  NOT good for the economy.

The lawmakers can't leave all decision making up to each individual state, then when that state fails in it's budget, just blame it on the President.  It doesn't work that way.  Or shouldn't.  A lot of people want each state to make it's decisions.  Now look at the mess San Francisco is in!

Every time a new lawmaker goes into office, he comes with his own set of rules and regulations.  It won't be long before we will have to wipe the slate clean and start over.  Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea.

111 posted on 02/22/2004 7:26:37 AM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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To: SheLion
When the STATE takes over a small business owner, who is in the states sites next? It gives me the shivers.

Honestly, 1984 comes to mind.

112 posted on 02/22/2004 7:26:46 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Thank you.

My non-smoking friends and my smoking friends long ago came to a perfectly reasonable compromise - when a group of us would go out for dinner, we generally will go to a non-smoking establishment or sit in the non-smoking section. But if we are going out for an evening of drinking we would head for the places that generally had decent ventilation systems or, in the nice weather, outside dining and drinking.

Unfortunatley the state of Delaware took that choice away from us a year and a half ago. Yet when my non-smoking friends come to visit us in VA, we stick with the same arrangement. When we visit in Delaware, we only got out to eat or drink when the weather is decent and only go to places with outside seating.
113 posted on 02/22/2004 7:28:36 AM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: nicmarlo
Honestly, 1984 comes to mind.

~chills

114 posted on 02/22/2004 7:28:41 AM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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To: Gabz
Excellent compromise. My, how did you ADULTS manage to come to that DECISION without the aid of the nanny Nazis?
115 posted on 02/22/2004 7:30:48 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Gabz
when a group of us would go out for dinner, we generally will go to a non-smoking establishment or sit in the non-smoking section.

The same here. When my daughter comes home with grandbaby, we sat in the non-smoking area. We would take turns going to the smoking section for a quick cigarette.

Now, Maine has taken that away from us, as well.

I'm saving money by not going out to eat, but I really miss that part of my recreation. I could go over to Canada for meals. They still have smoking sections across the border. But I'm afraid of borders today.

116 posted on 02/22/2004 7:32:08 AM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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To: nicmarlo
Maybe, because we are all ADULTS, and had parents that taught us to work out our problems and realize that the world doesn't revolve around us and our likes and dislikes???
117 posted on 02/22/2004 7:32:35 AM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Gabz
the world doesn't revolve around us and our likes and dislikes???

BINGO!

118 posted on 02/22/2004 7:33:16 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: SheLion
Well, save up some of that money you are not spending and come visit us!!! I'll even make sure hubby and I sit downwind of you, so you don't smell our beer breath (LOL!!!)
119 posted on 02/22/2004 7:34:25 AM PST by Gabz (Smoke gnatzies: small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Gabz
Well, save up some of that money you are not spending and come visit us!!! I'll even make sure hubby and I sit downwind of you, so you don't smell our beer breath (LOL!!!)

Sounds like a winner! Oh yes! Ole Beer Breath. hee hee!

Now you KNOW I was just using that as an example. LOL!

Seriously, I'd LOVE to come visit.  I'd give you plenty of notice, though!

120 posted on 02/22/2004 7:37:44 AM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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