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The FReeper Foxhole Presents the Saturday Symposium - Towed vs. Self-Propelled - August 27th, 2005
see educational sources
Posted on 08/26/2005 10:14:46 PM PDT by snippy_about_it

Lord,
Keep our Troops forever in Your care
Give them victory over the enemy...
Grant them a safe and swift return...
Bless those who mourn the lost. .
FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer for all those serving their country at this time.
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U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues
Where Duty, Honor and Country are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.
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Our Mission: The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans. In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support. The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer. If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions. We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.
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Towed or self propelled guns? Which will be more successful in the future?
Towed Guns
Towed guns are, as the name implies, artillery pieces that must be towed by another vehicle. They are more powerful than mortars, and they have greater range. The M198 155mm howitzer, for example, can hurl a wide variety of 155mm projectiles as far as 18 km (33 km with rocket assist). It can also be used for multiple simultaneous strikes, and it can fire high explosive shells, anti-personnel or anti-armour mine-laying systems, tactical nuclear warheads, chemical weapons, smoke projectiles, communications jamming devices, remote sensors, illuminating projectiles, and even special guided projectiles. It is more than capable of destroying infantry, buildings, or armoured vehicles, so it is used to hit "deep targets" well behind the front lines. This can include armoured columns moving to the front, enemy artillery, etc. Towed guns can even be small enough to be highly portable. For example, the British Army has a 105mm light gun which is air portable, yet has a maximum range of more than 17 km. The example pictured at right is equipped with a Marconi LINAPS automatic aiming system.
However, the towed gun's primary weakness is its lack of mobility. Since a towed gun can be targeted from the flight path of its projectile, it is an obvious target for enemy counter-attack. It also has difficulty keeping up with rapidly moving mobile forces, since the number of available tractors is generally smaller than the number of guns. Therefore, the towed gun has been largely supplanted by the self-propelled gun in modern armies. However, the towed gun is much less expensive than the self-propelled gun, and in today's complex global environment, the enemy need not be a large, well-armed national military force. It could be anything from terrorists to criminal organizations, and in many cases, these enemies are poorly equipped, lacking effective field artillery or projectile tracking systems. Against such an enemy, a towed artillery piece can be a lethal and virtually untouchable implement of war.
Self-propelled Guns
Mobile warfare is hampered by immobile artillery support, so a full-scale conventional warfare scenario requires self-propelled artillery pieces such as the American M110A1. This is a self-propelled 203mm howitzer. It has been in service for decades, and can be found in the armies of numerous countries around the world. It can fire an 8-inch diameter, 92.5 kg high explosive projectile to a maximum range of 21.3 km, and a rocket-assisted projectile to a maximum range of 29.1 km. It can also fire a variety of other projectiles if necessary, like the towed M198 mentioned above, but unlike the M198, it can travel at nearly 60 km/h under its own power. It also has a shovel-like attachment which digs into the ground to stabilize the platform against the prodigious force of recoil from its massive gun. It should be noted that this gun provides no protection whatsoever for its crew, and that this sort of self-propelled gun is actually the exception rather than the rule. Most self-propelled guns have an enclosed crew cab for protection as well as greater ammo storage.
The doctrine of self-propelled gun deployment calls for large numbers of independent units to situate themselves around the countryside and move with the infantry and armour units. When a target is identified by the spotters, all of these artillery pieces will simultaneously open fire and shower it with shells, before pulling up stakes and changing positions in order to avoid the inevitable enemy artillery counter-attack (the slang term is "shoot and scoot". In this way, mobile artillery units achieve the dangerous combination of mobility, dispersion, and firepower concentration.
sym·po·sium : a social gathering at which there is free interchange of ideas
So now let's get on with the discussion. Special thanks to USMCBOMBGUY for today's subject. His question was "Towed or self propelled artillery? Which will be more successful in the future?" I took the liberty of narrowing the subject down to guns rather than all artillery. Pull up a chair or grab a spot on the floor around the virtual Foxhole Cabin and let's chat.
FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links

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TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: artillery; fampl; fapl; freeperfoxhole; history; samsdayoff; saturdaysymposium; selfpropelledguns; towedguns; veterans
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To: w_over_w
Hope you like the Warthog sunset That is a nice looking piece of self-propelled artillery.
41
posted on
08/27/2005 3:05:15 PM PDT
by
PAR35
To: GailA
Enjoy your dinner, we've got a chance of rain tomorrow.
42
posted on
08/27/2005 3:05:31 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: w_over_w
43
posted on
08/27/2005 3:06:23 PM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(If puns are outlawed, only outlaws will have puns.)
To: w_over_w
A flying tank!
Good afternoon sugar.
44
posted on
08/27/2005 3:06:54 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: w_over_w
What I care about most with "towed vs self-propelled" is that we have the biggest, baddest, most accurate howitzers that send our enemies straight to hell (or to Allah) in the shortest time possible. Amen!
45
posted on
08/27/2005 3:08:04 PM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
To: Valin
Artillery is here to stay. It is a cheap and accurate way to engage the enemy from a distance, what more could the military want? Since the advent of slingers, catapults and arrows, artillery has played a crucial role in battle and will continue too until something better comes along.
46
posted on
08/27/2005 3:08:40 PM PDT
by
USMCBOMBGUY
(You build it, I'll defeat it!)
To: USMCBOMBGUY; snippy_about_it
Getting back to you regarding final thoughts on "wild fire style" on a previous thread. Thanks for all the input . . . I forgot about the use of "spray and pray" as well.
Hope you don't mind but instead of crossing my fingers, I said a little prayer that your house closing is successful. God wants Marines to have a solid foundation under them and a good roof above them. IMHO.
Snippy made a bad remark about yardwork. If you're like me (God help you) yardwork relieves the stress of the 9 to 5 job. Like shaving, you will discover the answers to life's biggest challenges simply by mowing the yard! Also, yardwork builds a stronger marriage. My wife points and says, "dig there, I want to plant a rosebush" and I grunt, dig and plant while she watches and offers technical advise. It's true love!
47
posted on
08/27/2005 3:19:19 PM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Sometimes it's difficult to see the Forest for the fees.)
To: w_over_w
An argument, on FreeRepublic? I find that hard to believe.
48
posted on
08/27/2005 3:21:23 PM PDT
by
Valin
(The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
To: snippy_about_it
49
posted on
08/27/2005 3:22:09 PM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Sometimes it's difficult to see the Forest for the fees.)
To: SAMWolf
50
posted on
08/27/2005 3:23:33 PM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Sometimes it's difficult to see the Forest for the fees.)
To: w_over_w
"What I care about most with "towed vs self-propelled" is that we have the biggest, baddest, most accurate howitzers that send our enemies straight to hell (or to Allah) in the shortest time possible."
Look at it this way, for every self propelled battery we could probably afford to field three or four towed batteries
Food for thought
Keep in mind that civilians (The House and Senate) are the ones who approve what we get!
51
posted on
08/27/2005 3:28:02 PM PDT
by
USMCBOMBGUY
(You build it, I'll defeat it!)
To: Valin
An argument, on FreeRepublic? I find that hard to believe.Really? Try this. I refer to post #16. The greatest song in the history of music was Captain and Tennille's "Muskrat Love". It replaced the now second greatest song, Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots Were Made For Walking".
Flame away!
52
posted on
08/27/2005 3:35:33 PM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Sometimes it's difficult to see the Forest for the fees.)
To: USMCBOMBGUY
Keep in mind that civilians (The House and Senate) are the ones who approve what we get!Truer words! At least for now it's not approved by activist judges.
53
posted on
08/27/2005 3:41:13 PM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Sometimes it's difficult to see the Forest for the fees.)
To: w_over_w
Thank you for the prayer!
I am looking forward to the yard work. The yard is about 20X25' so I am going to have to be creative in its layout. The yard is unfinished so I will have to figure out the sprinkler system, grass area, and BBQ area all while staying in the HOA regulations. As for mowing, that will be done with a pair of scissors!
I am not looking forward to the $2,300 mortgage payment for the whooping 1,174 square feet but that's sunny California for you!
54
posted on
08/27/2005 3:43:33 PM PDT
by
USMCBOMBGUY
(You build it, I'll defeat it!)
To: USMCBOMBGUY
y'all ought ta think about moving out here to Kansas :-)
For about half that payment ya could get twice the house on a lot about 125'x150'
As an added bonus no earthquakes but there is the ocassional twister

Regards
alfa6 ;>}
55
posted on
08/27/2005 4:37:27 PM PDT
by
alfa6
(Any child of twelve can do it, with fifteen years practice)
To: Professional Engineer
For some reason the pic ain't showin either at work or at home. Oh well I have probably seen it, maybe.
Some of them commercials may not be quite the thing for the spiderboy to view. However off hand I think that the nailgun, the summo wrestler and the the two JAPP commercials wouold be spiderboy safe.
At work so I don't have the list with me and I don't think I had any bad NSFW clips on there.
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
56
posted on
08/27/2005 4:42:00 PM PDT
by
alfa6
(Any child of twelve can do it, with fifteen years practice)
To: alfa6
Our ultimate goal is to make some money on this place and move up. I just wish there was a Marine Corps base in Ohio! I would rather deal with the twisters then the traffic out here. I think the quakes are just God's way of reminding everyone of who's really the Boss. The Liberals out here just don't get it.
57
posted on
08/27/2005 4:49:38 PM PDT
by
USMCBOMBGUY
(You build it, I'll defeat it!)
To: Valin
Howdy, Valin.
One Hundred Percent Agreement.
The Infantry will be finished when the last man dies. Naw. The Infantry will be here long after the last man dies.
In concept radars and radios as we know them are over. Aircraft ditto. Don't know where this will lead.
58
posted on
08/27/2005 5:29:08 PM PDT
by
Iris7
("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
To: SAMWolf
If you're still curious, Spider took a picture of my gut yesterday. You can find it
here.
59
posted on
08/27/2005 5:46:54 PM PDT
by
Professional Engineer
(As an Engineer, you too can learn to calculate the power of the Dark Side.)
To: Professional Engineer
60
posted on
08/27/2005 5:52:57 PM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(If puns are outlawed, only outlaws will have puns.)
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