The FReeper Foxhole Presents the Saturday Symposium - Towed vs. Self-Propelled - August 27th, 2005

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[snippy_about_it]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

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for all those serving their country at this time.


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Towed or self propelled guns? Which will be more successful in the future?



Towed Guns



Towed guns are, as the name implies, artillery pieces that must be towed by another vehicle. They are more powerful than mortars, and they have greater range. The M198 155mm howitzer, for example, can hurl a wide variety of 155mm projectiles as far as 18 km (33 km with rocket assist). It can also be used for multiple simultaneous strikes, and it can fire high explosive shells, anti-personnel or anti-armour mine-laying systems, tactical nuclear warheads, chemical weapons, smoke projectiles, communications jamming devices, remote sensors, illuminating projectiles, and even special guided projectiles. It is more than capable of destroying infantry, buildings, or armoured vehicles, so it is used to hit "deep targets" well behind the front lines. This can include armoured columns moving to the front, enemy artillery, etc. Towed guns can even be small enough to be highly portable. For example, the British Army has a 105mm light gun which is air portable, yet has a maximum range of more than 17 km. The example pictured at right is equipped with a Marconi LINAPS automatic aiming system.

However, the towed gun's primary weakness is its lack of mobility. Since a towed gun can be targeted from the flight path of its projectile, it is an obvious target for enemy counter-attack. It also has difficulty keeping up with rapidly moving mobile forces, since the number of available tractors is generally smaller than the number of guns. Therefore, the towed gun has been largely supplanted by the self-propelled gun in modern armies. However, the towed gun is much less expensive than the self-propelled gun, and in today's complex global environment, the enemy need not be a large, well-armed national military force. It could be anything from terrorists to criminal organizations, and in many cases, these enemies are poorly equipped, lacking effective field artillery or projectile tracking systems. Against such an enemy, a towed artillery piece can be a lethal and virtually untouchable implement of war.

Self-propelled Guns



Mobile warfare is hampered by immobile artillery support, so a full-scale conventional warfare scenario requires self-propelled artillery pieces such as the American M110A1. This is a self-propelled 203mm howitzer. It has been in service for decades, and can be found in the armies of numerous countries around the world. It can fire an 8-inch diameter, 92.5 kg high explosive projectile to a maximum range of 21.3 km, and a rocket-assisted projectile to a maximum range of 29.1 km. It can also fire a variety of other projectiles if necessary, like the towed M198 mentioned above, but unlike the M198, it can travel at nearly 60 km/h under its own power. It also has a shovel-like attachment which digs into the ground to stabilize the platform against the prodigious force of recoil from its massive gun. It should be noted that this gun provides no protection whatsoever for its crew, and that this sort of self-propelled gun is actually the exception rather than the rule. Most self-propelled guns have an enclosed crew cab for protection as well as greater ammo storage.

The doctrine of self-propelled gun deployment calls for large numbers of independent units to situate themselves around the countryside and move with the infantry and armour units. When a target is identified by the spotters, all of these artillery pieces will simultaneously open fire and shower it with shells, before pulling up stakes and changing positions in order to avoid the inevitable enemy artillery counter-attack (the slang term is "shoot and scoot". In this way, mobile artillery units achieve the dangerous combination of mobility, dispersion, and firepower concentration.

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sym·po·sium : a social gathering at which there is free interchange of ideas

So now let's get on with the discussion. Special thanks to USMCBOMBGUY for today's subject. His question was "Towed or self propelled artillery? Which will be more successful in the future?" I took the liberty of narrowing the subject down to guns rather than all artillery. Pull up a chair or grab a spot on the floor around the virtual Foxhole Cabin and let's chat.

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FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links

[PAR35]

The additional protection provided against counter-battery fire by a SP gun is overstated against a sophisticated enemy, and not needed against an unsophisticated one. A SP unit would appear to be more useful in blitzkrieg operations, while towed units are more cost effective in fixed positions.

Korea may be the last place that large scale artillery battles will be fought. Due to the redeployment there, SP will probably be more useful than towed. (Before the redeployment from the front, I would have argued it the other way around. )

With the proliferation of smart bombs and armed UAVs, you have to think that artillery will not be as important in the next century as it has been in the last 5. That is somewhat reflected in the reduction in the number of platforms available. At the end of WWII, US field artillery ranged from 75mm to 8 inch. Now I think they have consolidated down to 105 and 155, with only limited ammo types for the smaller guns. (German Artillery had an even broader range).

[USMCBOMBGUY]

With out jumping into the hornets nest of wheeled verse tracked vehicles the towed pieces have the ability to be towed by either but are primarily towed by wheeled truck.
The M198 (soon to be replaced with the M777) of the Marine Corps is generally towed by the new Oshkosh seven ton truck. The Army generally tows theirs with their five ton truck. The weight of the "niner eight" is 16000lbs the weight of the M777 is 9000 and change allowing it to be pulled by vehicles as light as the A2 Humvees.
Emplacement and displacement by a fresh crew can be done in sixty seconds (counter battery can be "shot out" in sixty seconds) for the M198. The emplacement/displacement for the M777 is expected to be faster.
As seen in Iraq the M198 and seven ton combo was one of the fastest combat arms of the US military. Key to this was the vast number of improved roads and the open terrain in the south.
The M198 can be air lifted when required which gives it a capability that cant be matched by self propelled guns.
The self propelled guns have a greater range that cant be matched by the towed guns even when firing RAP (rocket assist) rounds.
The Paladin system comes with heavy support vehicles that increase the systems footprint. The Paladin system has a linked system that allows faster targeting and target queuing. The M777 will have a similar system that will allow similar capabilities.
I think the days of the self propelled guns may be numbered. As with many tracked vehicles maintenance cost are greater. The lighter towed guns are faster then the current self propelled system and DODs goals for an expeditionary military works against the heavy self propelled system.
Just my two cents.

[Professional Engineer]

Spiderboy enjoyed watching the A-10 video. That got me to looking at A-10.org, Hawksmoke.com, etc. This has got to be a good illustration of GI humor.

[PzLdr]

As a former tanker, self propelled all the way:

[1] Greater cross country mobility.
[2] Crew protection against not only enemy fire, but CBR
[3] More rapid and flexible deployment from movement to fire mission
[4] Internally contained commo system
[5] Keeps up with the panzers, quicker displacement from previous position
[6] Most types can be fired from inside the cab

[snippy_about_it]

Hey Don, it sounded good to me, too. Of course I'm in the same boat, just a civilian without a clue so that's probably why were both off course. LOL.

[snippy_about_it]

That is, exotic radars that can track artillery shells and direct fire on the piece shooting.

That makes the argument understandable.

[snippy_about_it]

We are off to Crawford..

Give 'em hell texianyankee and report back in!

[snippy_about_it]

I could wear a t-shirt with that printed on it everyday.

[snippy_about_it]

I hate bumming rides from other folks.

LOL. Self propelled is good, as long as it's a planned trip.

[snippy_about_it]

Thanks Mark. Good points.

[snippy_about_it]

Those smart bombs are expensive though and in some of the underdevoped countries we have to fight in I'm thinking on house to house fighting or limited small known targets artillery would come in handy.

[snippy_about_it]

With out jumping into the hornets nest of wheeled verse tracked vehicles ...

Hey, it was your idea! :-)

[GailA]

Good afternoon Snippy, Sam and every one. We got some much needed rain today. I've got a dinner date later this evening.

[Valin]

With the proliferation of smart bombs and armed UAVs, you have to think that artillery will not be as important in the next century as it has been in the last 5.


I've got a sneekin suspicion that the Queen of battle is going to be around for a while yet.

[w_over_w]

EVENING GRACE FOLKS!

Hope you like the Warthog sunset . . . I spent hours of tireless googling to find this pic just for you! ;^)

[USMCBOMBGUY]

You are correct!
Wow, you really have got to stop being right all the time!

The self propelled verse towed discussion really has a great deal to do with the tracked verses wheeled. But when you consider the fact that tracks can tow the guns it becomes less of an issue. I just can't see the military sticking to the self propelled guns. They are just to large and inflexible to be of overall value.

[USMCBOMBGUY]

That is a great pic! Thanks for posting it.

[U S Army EOD]

Plus you can pick up most towed guns with a CH47 and set them on a big hill. Did it all the time in Vietnam.

[snippy_about_it]

Wow, you really have got to stop being right all the time!

:-)

[w_over_w]

Interesting read about pros and cons of towed vs self-propelled. Obviously, an arguement to be shared by those who know. But as an outside, inexperienced, and civilian observer allow me to offer the following technical critique:

What I care about most with "towed vs self-propelled" is that we have the biggest, baddest, most accurate howitzers that send our enemies straight to hell (or to Allah) in the shortest time possible.

Wanna argue? Go ahead . . . make my day! ;^)