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Mike Huckabee and libertarians
TheNextRight.com ^ | November 20, 2008 | Jon Henke

Posted on 11/20/2008 8:39:13 PM PST by Delacon

We've seen a lot of social conservatives upset over today's intemperate attack by Kathleen Parker (Note: she was unnecessarily contemptuous, but her point that "the Republican Party -- and conservatism with it -- eventually will die out unless religion is returned to the privacy of one's heart where it belongs" is worth serious consideration).

Well, I am a libertarian, so let's talk about the Kathleen Parker of the social conservative crowd: Mike Huckabee.

This week, Huckabee called libertarians the "real threat" to the Republican Party...

In a chapter titled "Faux-Cons: Worse than Liberalism," Huckabee identifies what he calls the "real threat" to the Republican Party: "libertarianism masked as conservatism." ... "I don't take issue with what they believe, but the smugness with which they believe it," writes Huckabee, who raised some taxes as governor and cut deals with his state's Democratic legislature. "Faux-Cons aren't interested in spirited or thoughtful debate, because such an endeavor requires accountability for the logical conclusion of their argument.

We've come quite some way since 1975, when Reagan said "I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."  

Oh, and it happens that Huckabee does, in fact, take issue with what we believe. In May of 2008, Huckabee called blamed election losses on Republicans being too "libertarian" (this is obviously some strange usage of the word "libertarian" that I was previously unaware of), accused us of being un-American (my response to that is unprintable, but I would be glad to say it to his face if he wanted to repeat his comment to my face) and then proceeded to make the standard, cartoonish Democratic argument against libertarianism.

The greatest threat to classic Republicanism is not liberalism; it's this new brand of libertarianism, which is social liberalism and economic conservatism, but it's a heartless, callous, soulless type of economic conservatism because it says "look, we want to cut taxes and eliminate government. If it means that elderly people don't get their Medicare drugs, so be it. If it means little kids go without education and healthcare, so be it." Well, that might be a quote pure economic conservative message, but it's not an American message. ...

If you have a breakdown in the social structure of a community, it's going to result in a more costly government ... police on the streets, prison beds, court costs, alcohol abuse centers, domestic violence shelters, all are very expensive. What's the answer to that? Cut them out? Well, the libertarians say "yes, we shouldn't be funding that stuff."

Excepting the anarcho-capitalists (who basically aren't a part of the electoral equation, anyway), I don't know a single libertarian who says we shouldn't fund police, prisons or courts.  Most libertarians who are aligned with the Right or the Republican Party are less concerned about the few billion that Huckabee describes here than they are about the few trillion other dollars the government is spending, or the uncountable additional costs of unnecessary regulation and legislation. (This is a perfect illustration of my problem #3 with Mike Huckabee, noted below)

So, let me boil down my problems with Mike Huckabee.

This is easily as contemptuous, as offensive as anything Kathleen Parker has written about social conservatives.  So, yeah, a columnist express disdain for social conservatives.  Cry me a river.  We libertarians had a social conservative Governor and Presidential candidate call us the "real threat" and "smug", and brazenly misrepresent our views before calling our message un-American.

Social conservatives have to realize that they need the fiscally conservative, socially moderate/tolerant voters if they want to be a part of a winning coalition.  The limited government message won revolutionary victories for Republicans in 1980 and 1994; it is the only viable organizing principle for the current Republican coalition. 

Huckabee may believe libertarians are the "real threat", but his God, Guns and Butter agenda would destroy the Right far more effectively than the libertarian cartoons that exist in Huckabee's head.



TOPICS: Issues
KEYWORDS: conservatism; huckabee; libertarianism; lp; ntsa; socialconservatives
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To: Delacon
I can't believe there are Christians who don't recall Jesus' teachings about this whole question.

Remember that Jesus taught his apostles that they shouldn't just do good things themselves, they should force others to do so.

How about when He said that if others don't want to follow your teachings, don't just shake the dust off your sandals and move on, but bring the full armed force of the government against those people, confiscate their money, and do what you think are good deeds with it!

It's obvious that Huckabee is right about Jesus...Jesus definitely wasn't in favor of free will and peoples' rights.

</sarc>

True social conservatives are fine. But there seem to be few of them today, and Gov. Huckabee certainly isn't conservative.

41 posted on 11/21/2008 5:53:25 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: marron
Huckabee isn’t insufferable because he’s a bible-thumper, at least in my view, since I’m a bible-thumper. He’s insufferable because he’s a big-government guy, a statist, masquerading as a conservative.

He should read his Bible more, rather than just thumping it. Christianity doesn't consist of using government power to impose your will on others.

In other words my problem with Huck isn’t the hayseed, since hayseeds are the heart of this party. Its the statist masquerading as hayseed.

Right on the mark.

42 posted on 11/21/2008 5:58:18 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Delacon

43 posted on 11/21/2008 6:17:59 AM PST by GOP_Lady
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To: JaneNC
Libertarians are merely cheap liberals.

People who make statements like only show they have NO understanding of what they are talking about.

44 posted on 11/21/2008 6:27:59 AM PST by slnk_rules (http://mises.org)
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To: JaneNC
rather than just let the above be a "drive by slam" here is a cut and paste I use for social conservatives who seem to think some really weird things about what libertarianism is:

Hope you enjoy:

All liberalism (classic liberalism, which is called libertarianism today) consists of is the idea that men are wicked and self serving, therefore the greatest mercy one can bestow in the political realm is seek to limit their power and make them compete with each other. It is a solidly BIBLICAL viewpoint which recognizes that men are predisposed to abuse power. It grew DIRECTLY out of Scottish and Swiss Reformed Christianity, which had experienced massive revivals of the Holy Spirit completely re-working the entire societies, including the intelligencia. Those men would be the first to tell you that no political or educational system is functional in an apostate society. No one is arguing that point that I know of. What I *AM* saying is that libertarianism is the best application of biblical observations about human nature in the realm of politics that we have come up with so far, excepting of course the return of the Great King.

What I took exception to was your silly statement that Christianity and Libertarianism are inimical. One birthed the other. Fundamentalists today --and especially the Dobson/Huckabee types-- want to reverse that order. (Government leadership in morality). It won't work, and will lead to tyranny.

If you want to change the subject and state that what we really need is revival and a movement of God in our culture, I will simply move over and ask you to sing beside me on that one. Real true revival is desperately needed. North America is the only continent in the world where Christianity is not growing, but receding. The proper venue to seek that is through prayer, though, not the ballot box

Finally, when you see CHRISTIAN libertarians arguing for legalization of drugs or similiar stuff, you should not assume (as many mindless fundamentalists do) that we are just saying these are ok. Rather it is like this passage in Deuteronomy 24.

When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

Note that Jesus himself says (Matthew 19 and Mark 10) that this LAW DOES NOT REFLECT THE WILL OF GOD. IN FACT, IT PERMITS A GREAT EVIL. Divorce is something that God hates (Malachi 2:16). Yet the civil law given by the finger of God permitted it. Why? Because the law and political structures are not INTENDED to transform societies. They CANNOT do so.Their purpose (and thus their blessing) is to restrain evil, and you should note that the purpose is not to restrain ALL evil. If you try to build a society whose laws reflect the directive will of God, you will only impose tyranny, and turn what is a blessing into a curse. Again, Law CANNOT transform men, as men who run the system are evil and men will not obey "oppressive" laws, even when the laws are good and would be a blessing.

Hey, look at that, Jesus sounds like a libertarian there, doesn't He? He says clearly that the law of God PERMITTED divorce because of the evil of men's hearts. The only thing he does not do is follow through and explain that we should NOT have laws prohibiting every evil because this will lead to tyranny, or too much power collectivized in government. Of course Jesus did not make ANY political prescriptions did he? That is just a logical application of what little he did say.

The above is why I make the statement that those who say that libertarianism is hostile to Christianity understand neither.

45 posted on 11/21/2008 6:41:21 AM PST by slnk_rules (http://mises.org)
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To: Delacon

nice post


46 posted on 11/21/2008 7:31:46 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: bamahead

LOL! The RINO Huckabee is in our sites, fire away boys!


47 posted on 11/21/2008 7:34:56 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: Uhaul

There is nothing conservative or right wing about Nazi’s.

The only real political difference between Nazi’s and Communists is that the latter are International Socialists, and the former are National Socialists.


48 posted on 11/21/2008 7:54:44 AM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed.... so how could it be Redistributed?)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran; Delacon

Looks like Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, and Ron Paul all used their first names, or the normal nickname thereof. Only Willard the giant Rat decided not to. Are you on crack or something?


49 posted on 11/21/2008 9:32:25 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking
At least Fred Thompson went to court and had his first
name “Freddie” changed because he did not like it.
50 posted on 11/21/2008 9:38:05 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Obama, Change America will die for.)
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To: Delacon

Many of the issues that truly concern social conservatives are better addressed by libertarian Republicans and actually have a chance of getting solved, like: right to life, prayer in school, the definition of marriage, etc. When the power returns to the States and to the people, we have a better chance of dealing freely with this ourselves rather than the federal government handling it in a purely legalistic way.

But the issues that most concern libertarian Republicans are NOT addressed by social conservatives: smaller government, lower taxes, freedom of conscience.

Social conservatives are exclusive and libertarian Republicans are inclusive. So which one do you think has a better shot at winning election? The exclusive or the inclusive group?

And who are you going to believe? Huckabee, who thinks that “Libertarians are the biggest threat to the Republican Party”? Or Ronald Reagan, who said “I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.”?

I am a Christian, but any guy who refers to the Holy Communion as “Jesus juice” (ala Michael Jackson), scares me as much — if not more— as any atheistic Liberal!


51 posted on 11/21/2008 10:03:14 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Delacon

Let’s nominate Huck in 2012. We’re going to lose anyway, lets discredit his brand of conservatism in the process. I think he would do much worse than McCain. He would probably only win a subset of the states he won in the GOP primary: some of the Bible belt.

It would be a sound thrashing. We could move on to the next idea.


52 posted on 11/21/2008 10:49:43 AM PST by Jack Black (NO MANDATORY SERVICE IN THE OBAMA-YOUTH !)
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To: figgers3036

The two are tied in a sense...

Many of the social problems are related to our country’s liberal economic policies.

And G-D doesn’t bless any country that gives too much power to government


53 posted on 11/21/2008 11:53:53 AM PST by Def Conservative (Palin, Jindal, Pence, Sanford, Steele= the new GOP...out with the old)
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To: Delacon
"Well, I am a libertarian, so let's talk about the Kathleen Parker of the social conservative crowd: Mike Huckabee."


I got no use for either one.
54 posted on 11/21/2008 12:12:40 PM PST by rob777 (Personal Responsibility is the Price of Freedom)
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To: figgers3036
"God doesn’t bless a society based on their economic policies - he blesses them on their social policies."


The proper role of government vs. civil society IS a MAJOR social issue! The role of government is a fundamental principle of conservatism that transcends the artificial economic/social issue distinction and has implications in both areas. If a person can not get this fundamental principle straight, then I do not consider him a conservative even if he takes conservative positions on some economic or social issues.
55 posted on 11/21/2008 12:18:09 PM PST by rob777 (Personal Responsibility is the Price of Freedom)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Am I to take it that you think it’s somehow deceptive or indicates that they’re ashamed of their formal given names if people go by the traditional nicknames?

No criticism intended if that’s the case, but I don’t think I ever met anyone with that belief, and I have to admit, it seems a little odd.


56 posted on 11/21/2008 1:31:19 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Def Conservative

True. For example, the fracture of low income black families skyrocketed after the introduction of LBJ’s (spit) Great [Hoax] Society, and families think they don’t need to care for their old folks now that we have Socialist [in]Security.


57 posted on 11/21/2008 1:33:58 PM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Delacon
The Club for Growth was founded by Stephen Moore, a real enthusiast for immigration.

Not that Huckabee's any better on immigration, but it's best to be a little wary about advocacy groups.

Calling them "the Club for Greed" as Huckabee did is certainly going too far, but I'd be wary of getting stampeded by anybody.

58 posted on 11/21/2008 2:00:30 PM PST by x
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To: Delacon

Both Parker and Huckster miss the point by such a wide margin it is hard to know where to begin.

Evangelicals and libertarians have one big thing in common....fear of Gubmint control.

No act is genuine unless it’s done voluntarily without Government coercion.


59 posted on 11/21/2008 4:34:34 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: figgers3036

To the FReepers in attendance and the millions watching around the world on Pay Per View…Ladies and Gentleman...

LLLLLLLets Get Ready to RRRumblllllllle!!!!

“LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!"® is a registered Trademark of Michael Buffer, all rights reserved.

1,500,000,000 rounds of posts, arguments, insults, cheesy graphics, name calling, and ad hominem personal attacks that pass as debate for the FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!

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Chapter 1: Live From the Reagan Building

60 posted on 11/21/2008 4:39:22 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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