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Thomas A. Droleskey on the Lies of Protestantism
Seattle Catholic ^ | September 29, 2003 | Thomas A. Droleskey

Posted on 09/30/2003 9:32:47 AM PDT by Fifthmark

Protestantism is founded on many lies: (1) That Our Blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did not create a visible, hierarchical Church. (2) That there is no authority given by Our Lord to the Pope and his bishops and priests to govern and to sanctify the faithful. (3) That each believer has an immediate and personal relationship with the Savior as soon as he makes a profession of faith on his lips and in his heart, therefore being perpetually justified before God. (4) Having been justified by faith alone, a believer has no need of an intermediary from a non-existent hierarchical priesthood to forgive him his sins. He is forgiven by God immediately when he asks forgiveness. (5) This state of justification is not earned by good works. While good works are laudable, especially to help unbelievers convert, they do not impute unto salvation. Salvation is the result of the profession of faith that justifies the sinner. (6) That grace is merely, in the words of Martin Luther, the snowflakes that cover up the "dungheap" that is man. (7) That there is only one source of Divine Revelation, Sacred Scripture. (8) That each individual is his own interpreter of Sacred Scripture. (9) That there is a strict separation of Church and State. Princes, to draw from Luther himself, may be Christians but it is not as a Christian that they ought to rule. These lies have permutated in thousands of different directions. However, they have sewn the fabric of the modern state and popular culture for nearly 500 years (I shudder to think how the Vatican is going to commemorate the 500th anniversary of Luther's posting his 95 theses on the church doors in Wittenberg fourteen years from now).

Here below are explanations of these lies and their multifaceted implications for the world in which we live:

(1-2) The contention that Our Lord did not create a visible, hierarchical church vitiates the need for a hierarchical, sacerdotal priesthood for the administration of the sacraments. It is a rejection of the entirety of the history of Christianity prior to the Sixteenth Century. It is a denial of the lesson taught us by Our Lord by means of His submission to His own creatures, Saint Joseph and the Blessed Mother, in the Holy Family of Nazareth that each of us is to live our entire lives under authority, starting with the authority of the Vicar of Christ and those bishops who are in full communion with him. The rejection of the visible, hierarchical church is founded on the prideful belief that we are able to govern ourselves without being directed by anyone else on earth. This contention would lead in due course to the rejection of any and all religious belief as necessary for individuals and for societies. Luther and Calvin paved the way for Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the French Revolution that followed so closely the latter's deification of man.

(3-6) Baptism is merely symbolic of the Christian's desire to be associated with the Savior in the amorphous body known as the Church. What is determinative of the believer's relationship with Christ is his profession of faith. As the believer remains a reprobate sinner, all he can do is to seek forgiveness by confessing his sins privately to God. This gives the Protestant of the Lutheran strain the presumptuous sense that there is almost nothing he can do to lose his salvation once he has made his profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. There is thus no belief that a person can scale the heights of personal sanctity by means of sanctifying grace. It is impossible, as Luther projected from his own unwillingness to cooperate with sanctifying grace to overcome his battles with lust, for the believer to be anything other than a dungheap. Thus a Protestant can sin freely without for once considering that he has killed the life of sanctifying grace in his soul, thereby darkening his intellect and weakening the will and inclining himself all the more to sin-and all the more a vessel of disorder and injustice in the larger life of society.

(7-8) The rejection of a visible, hierarchical Church and the rejection of Apostolic Tradition as a source of Divine Revelation protected by that Church leads in both instances to theological relativism. Without an authoritative guide to interpret Divine Revelation, including Sacred Scripture, individual believers can come to mutually contradictory conclusions about the meaning of passages, the precise thing that has given rise to literally thousands of Protestant sects. And if a believer can reduce the Bible, which he believes is the sole source of Divine Revelation, to the level of individual interpretation, then there is nothing to prevent anyone from doing the same with all written documents, including the documents of a nation's founding. If the plain words of Scripture can be deconstructed of their meaning, it is easy to do so, say, with the words of a governmental constitution. Theological relativism paved the way for moral relativism. Moral relativism paved the way for the triumph of positivism and deconstructionism as normative in the realm of theology and that of law and popular culture.

(9) The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ as it was exercised by His true Church in the Middle Ages by the Protestant concept of the separation of Church and State is what gave rise to royal absolutism in Europe in the immediate aftermath of Luther's handiwork. Indeed, as I have noted any number of times before, it is arguably the case that the conditions that bred resentment on the part of colonists in English America prior to 1776 might never have developed if England had remained a Catholic nation. The monarchy would have been subject in the Eighteenth Century to same constraints as it had in the Tenth or Eleventh Centuries, namely, that kings and queens would have continued to understand that the Church reserved unto herself the right to interpose herself in the event that rulers had done things-or proposed to do things-that were contrary to the binding precepts of the Divine positive law and the natural law and/or were injurious of the cause of the sanctification and salvation of the souls of their subjects. The overthrow of the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ deposited power first of all in the hands of monarchs eager to be rid of the "interference" of the Church and ultimately in the hands of whoever happened to hold the reins of governmental power in the modern "democratic" state. Despotism has been the result in both cases

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To: RnMomof7
Does the concept of following Christ's Church and thinkings for oneself somehow seem contradictory to you?
361 posted on 09/30/2003 11:48:35 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; Havoc
"Sacrament - Middle English via Old French sacrement from Latin sacramentum 'solemn oath' "

Bingo - thanks Hermann!

I was actually waiting to see if this person had the wherewithall to do some research for himself to justify his statement that "there are no sacraments in scripture."

Of course scripture is so full of them that there wouldn't be room on this forum to write them all down.

The whole salvific economy is based on sacraments because sacraments or oaths are the essential constitutive elements of covenants.

God saves by covenant not by having people pick up a bible and concoct their own fairytale religion out of it. Our friend Havoc obviously has his very own personal brand of protestantism which doesn't even acknowledge the resurrection of the body!!! LOL!!
362 posted on 10/01/2003 2:47:27 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Elsie; Hermann the Cherusker; Havoc
"I still missed the "POPE" part!"

Only because you are not thinking! Pope is not an English word - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

When you have worked out what it means, you will find it in the following passage which Hermann quite correctly quoted for you:

Isaiah 22.20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliacim the son of Helcias,
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and will strengthen him with thy girdle, and will give thy power into his hand: and he shall be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Juda.
22 And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Eliacim was the major domo/prime minister/vicar of the Davidic kingdom. This is the only passage in the whole OT where keys are referred to in a theological context. This is the passage that Jesus meant you to think of when he said to Peter "I will give to you (singular) the keys of the kingdom....."
363 posted on 10/01/2003 2:58:45 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
***I'm sure with the outcome he now has, he would do it again differently if given the opportunity.***

A drunk driver who runs down a pedestrian would "do it again differently if given the opportunity," but that sentiment does not make him good.

A "good man" does the right thing when it counts.
364 posted on 10/01/2003 3:13:48 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Would you be surprised to know that fictions have prevailed in your ranks since the time of Eusebius. Eusebius was a fair manufacturer of Catholic Fictions. And as it happens, he is the only source of countless such citations that will never see the light of day because they never really existed. Some of these false historicals come from the forged liber Pontificalis, and some come from isidore and Gracian. The point I was making to you is that you haven't layed eyes on the works these purportedly came from - nor has anyone else most likely. The three cyrils are among the most forged in catholicism's 'early fathers'. But hey, who am I - there are whole volumes out there dedicated just to listing all the stuff the Catholic Church Forged or otherwise defrauded people with. I'm amazed that one of you could straight faced ask me If I subscribed to the Apostle's Creed - a known forgery. Did any of you research Catholicism before adopting it? I mean actually study it's history rather than just listening to what you were told by the church... Cause this is just amazing to me.
365 posted on 10/01/2003 4:30:06 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
LOL. as the verse says Although he be dead (there it is again) Although his body dies, his spirit lives. This is no change from the Old testament differentiations between physical or Bodily life and spiritual life. They are not one in the same. You are deliberately obfuscating and mistating what is being said. You can't be that dumb. Sorry.
366 posted on 10/01/2003 5:16:39 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I'm sorry. I mistook you for some sort of Christian. I see here that you deny the resurrection of the body. Apparently you are some sort of Manichean or dualist???

No, I didn't deny any such resurrection. But in order to be resurrected, it must first die. You're crowd is telling us nobody dies. Thus by your logic, no one could ever be resurrected. A living body has no need of resurrection. But then this is all a side argument ment to muddle and confuse on ya'lls part. Not because it's confusing; but because you can make it so..

367 posted on 10/01/2003 5:26:56 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Fifthmark; RnMomof7; CCWoody; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jean Chauvin; the_doc; Frumanchu; Wrigley
Why hasn't this thread been pulled for "Protestant bashing"?

Heaven knows that articles containing less screed have been pulled when it has been thought that they were "Catholic bashing", "Mormon bashing", etc.

So much for Vatican II, it was only lip service to begin with, and Catholics still think that we are damned to hell per the Councils. That's alright, Rome still sits on seven hills.

368 posted on 10/01/2003 5:52:07 AM PDT by Jerry_M (I can only say that I am a poor sinner, trusting in Christ alone for salvation. -- Gen. Robt E. Lee)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; RnMomof7; xzins
***That's why there are so many devout Protestants in Germany***


I was in Germany this summer, didn't see people knocking down the doors to attend mass, but we have reports of an increase in the Evangelical church.
369 posted on 10/01/2003 5:55:07 AM PDT by Gamecock (Paul was a Calvinist!)
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To: Gamecock
In my travels in Germany, the Catholic Churches have always been full, and they seem to have many more Masses per Sunday than the Evangelicals.
370 posted on 10/01/2003 5:59:44 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Mithraism has mysteries and priests that keep the mysteries. Christianity doesn't have such nonsense. There are no secret handshakes, no secret special incantations or rites. Like I said, it doesn't matter what you call it. I can say there are no Sacrements or I can say there are no mysteries. Both are true. So I'm not sure what you thought you were gaining.
371 posted on 10/01/2003 6:34:26 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Fifthmark
Catholics have a saying: "If you want to know what the Bible says, ask a Protestant"
372 posted on 10/01/2003 6:42:14 AM PDT by A. Patriot
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To: A. Patriot
Anyone know where I can buy some indulgences?
373 posted on 10/01/2003 6:45:37 AM PDT by A. Patriot
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To: ppaul
You mean, even if I live a stellar life and am revered as a saint, after I die I won't be able to pray for those who revere me?

It means precisely that. Nothing more to do ever in the things that go on under the sun.. is as exclusive as it gets. Nothing more - ever. Means you can't be involved here unless you sprout a living body again and pop back on earth. And that is so whether you end up in heaven or hell. Communicating with the dead is outlawed in every form in the Old testament. For someone to pray to you would be a sin. This is pretty basic stuff. It hasn't changed in Judaism. They all know it's a sin. How is it you don't?

374 posted on 10/01/2003 6:45:58 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Tantumergo
God saves by covenant not by having people pick up a bible and concoct their own fairytale religion out of it. Our friend Havoc obviously has his very own personal brand of protestantism which doesn't even acknowledge the resurrection of the body!!! LOL!!

No but I seem to have my very own personal detractor who's dead set on lying about my beliefs here when it suits him. That would be you. One wonders why it is so necessary to engage in such - liberal democrat tactics.. LOL. Can't fight facts, go ad hominem..

375 posted on 10/01/2003 6:48:45 AM PDT by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Can you produce these texts? What councils were these? How would you know that they are Church councils?

A good book on the subject, if you are interested: When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome.

Are you sure these weren't councils held by heretics and opposed by the Catholic Church?

Some may have been defined this way after the fact. At the time, they were as authoritative as Nicea.

376 posted on 10/01/2003 7:00:22 AM PDT by malakhi (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
You have a very limited and juridical view of the atonement that leaves out the crucial point of it all - God became Man so that man might become god.

HMMmmm........

Sounds more like MORMON theology to me!

377 posted on 10/01/2003 7:01:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones........)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
We believe babies are born sinless and graceless.

I guess if we can just keep them away from adults, they'll REMAIN that way!

378 posted on 10/01/2003 7:02:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones........)
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To: malakhi
I'm not suprised at all, actually. The discord was sown by Our Lord years ago when He said He "...did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
379 posted on 10/01/2003 7:07:40 AM PDT by Fifthmark
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To: Jerry_M
Why hasn't this thread been pulled for "Protestant bashing"?

I would assume it's because that none of us "P" folks in this thread have had their poor little feelings hurt and run to Momma for protection.


We are fully able to engage in communication while being provoked.

If Herman wants to taunt and tease and call us names, who is the one that is looking bad?

380 posted on 10/01/2003 7:07:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones........)
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