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The Rosary and Orthodoxy
WesternOrthodox.com ^

Posted on 09/15/2003 9:33:35 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker

The Rosary and Orthodoxy

From The Walsingham Way (Vol. II, No. I, Fall 1999), a newsletter of Western Orthodox spirituality published by the Orthodox Christian Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Some people have asked why the Orthodox don’t pray the Rosary as Roman Catholics and some other non-Orthodox do. Others object to Orthodox praying the Rosary since, in their view, this is not an Orthodox devotion, but peculiar to Roman Catholicism.

In hope of shedding some light on the subject, we publish the following letter of Father Alexander Gumanovsky, a spiritual son of Father Zosima, who was himself a spiritual son of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Fr. Alexander begins his letter with a quote from Fr. Zosima:

... I forgot to give you a piece of advice vital for salvation. Say the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin one hundred and fifty times, and this prayer will lead you on the way to salvation. This rule was given by the Mother of God herself in about the eighth century, and at one time all Christians fulfilled it. We Orthodox have forgotten about it, and St. Seraphim has reminded me of this Rule. In my hands I have a hand-written book from the cell of St. Seraphim, containing a description of the many miracles which took place through praying to the Mother of God and especially through saying one hundred and fifty times the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin. If, being unaccustomed to it, it is difficult to master one hundred and fifty repetitions daily, say it fifty times at first. After every ten repetitions say the Our Father once and Open unto us the doors of thy loving-kindness1. Whomever he spoke to about this miracle-working Rule remained grateful to him…

The elder Zosima greatly valued and loved Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky and always spoke of him as that saintly Bishop. Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and; when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in is this Rule whole life of the Queen of Heaven.

He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:

First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.

Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.

Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God—let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.

Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.

Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.

Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.

Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.

Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.

Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: They have no wine (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.

Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.

Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.

Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.

Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me (Psalm 51).

Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.

Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.

After every decade Bishop Seraphim prayed his own prayers, which he revealed to no one, so that only the Lord and the Queen of Heaven knew these prayers.

Thus, we can see that the Rosary is a completely Orthodox form of devotion to our Lady.

Those who follow the Western tradition should follow one of the standard forms, i.e. the opening consisting of the Sign of the Cross followed by the Lord’s Prayer; or O Lord, open Thou my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Thy praise and the Glory be… followed by the Lord’s Prayer and the Angelic Salutation (three times). After this, either five or fifteen decades (each preceded by the appropriate mystery) are recited; and after the decades, the conclusion consisting of the Regina Coeli and the appropriate collect.

Those who follow the Eastern tradition could very easily follow the form cited above, ending with the hymn, It is truly meet to call thee blessed.

What is essential is to daily seek the intercessions of the Mother of God, so that in drawing closer to her, we may be drawn closer to her Son, our Savior, Jesus, with whom she now reigns eternally in Heaven.

1. The Full text of the prayer is: Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray; but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian people.


TOPICS: Catholic; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; orthodox; prayer; rosary; stseraphim
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To: drstevej
"Give me the primary as fully primary and I will let the secondary be secondary to the extent the Scriptures allow."

Isn't this where we get back to the same old, same old debate about sola scriptura?

All the ancient churches hold to the Tradition which has been handed down from the apostles, including the typology and the understanding of the biblical texts which have been preserved from the beginning in our liturgies, patristic sources, and the teaching office of the Church.

The Scriptures and the Divine Liturgy flow from the same source of Revelation, and Holy Tradition preserves the true meanings of both as handed on from the apostles.

Your point of view is perfectly logical and consistent when operating in the sola scriptura paradigm, and having come from the Calvinist school myself, I know exactly what you mean.

However, most Christians throughout history live in a different paradigm where the blasphemy detectors would no more be fired off by the notion of salvation being by Christ through Mary, than a Protestant's blasphemy detectors would be set off by calling the bible the "Word of God".
81 posted on 09/15/2003 5:12:22 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo
***Isn't this where we get back to the same old, same old debate about sola scriptura?***

Yes, it is.


***Your point of view is perfectly logical and consistent when operating in the sola scriptura paradigm, and having come from the Calvinist school myself, I know exactly what you mean.***

Have I asked you to be a Cardinal when the smoke clears?

Blessings!
Steve

82 posted on 09/15/2003 5:15:31 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
"Have I asked you to be a Cardinal when the smoke clears?"

If you hadn't I guess you have now.

This Tradition stuff will all make sense once you don the little red shoes and the white cassock!

Hope Mrs Johnson is getting the bags all packed - it may not be too long now! October is the best month to visit Rome so you might want to arrange a quick recce soon. ;)

Blessings to you too.
83 posted on 09/15/2003 5:23:28 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: FormerLib; drstevej
Each and every saint that we commemorate is an example that His Light can shine through us.

And not just saints as persons, but their relics and icons and the like.

84 posted on 09/15/2003 5:32:25 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: drstevej; eastsider
The linkage between the Passover and Christ is plain (1 Corinthians 5:7). Between Adam and Christ is plain (Ro. 5:14), etc.

We would argue similarly that the linkage between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant is plain - (Rev. 11.19-12.1).

85 posted on 09/15/2003 5:36:44 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: drstevej
Innate Types - types specifically declared as such in the New Testament.

You mean like:

Manna and the Most Blessed Sacrament.

Creation of Adam and the priestly power of forgiving sins.

The Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacrifice of Melchizedek.

86 posted on 09/15/2003 5:39:05 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
11:19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

12:1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

 

[1] Prove Rev 12:1 is a reference to Mary. Biblical sources please.

[2] Demonstrate the linkage between the ark of Rev 11:19 and the woman of Revelation 12:1. Proximity doesn't equal identity.

87 posted on 09/15/2003 5:52:18 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; FormerLib
My point is, "You are equating Jesus and Mary (through terms and ascriptions) in a way that is quite foreign to the Bible."

I really don't see this. The Bible is all about Christ. But Mary is a living Bible, so to speak. The very thought of her brings to mind Christ, because the only reason she is not just another anonymous woman is the "most beloved Son whom [she] ... conceived ... brought forth, nursed, and most sweetly embraced and held tight" in the words of the prayer in the Roman Missal. Every breath she breathes exudes Christ, every step she takes shows us the way to Christ.

How am I Nestorian?

Not you, Protestantism has an underlying Nestorianism and low Christology. Its manifested by the hesitancy to follow what comes naturally to the followers of Sts. Athanasius and Cyril in heaping praises upon the Ever Virgin Mary.

The typical Nestorian hesitancy is refusing to realize the inadequacy of Christ as a model for humanity for the very reason that He is a divine person, and not a human person. The purpose of the Incarnation was not "conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but ... taking of Manhood into God" (Athanasian Creed). By becoming Incarnate, the Divine Son did away with all of our weaknesses, and united Himself to us, so that we might unite ourselves to Him. Its not just that Christ "did not sin", but He could not sin. This is quite unlike us, but it also perfects us.

In contrast, Blessed Mary, whom Christ perfected, is a perfect model for all humanity. Her perfection is due to the continuous prayers God inspired her to say, even from a most tender age, for which she merited to become the Mother of God. God's grace is available to all who would use it wisely, and wanting to none but those who reject it. If we follow the trail blazed by Mary, we too can be perfected in Christ. The most perfect way of doing this is to praise her and beg her assistance in attaching ourselves to Christ.

When we ask her to "save us", we are asking her to attach us to her Son. When we say "you are our Hope", we are admitting we are wholly inadequate for the task at hand ourselves, and require her steady maternal hand to set us on the straight way to God. We hope that she may pray for us continually and at all times to win us abundant grace to see us through the task at hand of overcoming sin, and unite us with Jesus.

My only objetion to the term "Mother of God" is that it CAN be misunderstood, not that it is untrue. Mary is the mother of Jesus, Jesus is God, Mary is the mother of God.

How can "Mother of God" possibly be misunderstood? God is ineffable and unchangeable - its hardly as though He can be "born", as though Mary "created" Him.

The meaning is obvious and Christological - Mary is the human mother of the second hypostasis of the Holy Trinity - the Divine Word, the Son of God.

And while as God, Jesus is outside of law, but as Man, He is obedient to it. The 4th Commandment is "Honor thy Father and Mother". The man Jesus did this by granting His Mother the greatest gifts His Divinity could give - fulfilling in Blessed Mary all perfection of grace and conquering of sin, assuming her bodily into heaven, and enthroning her at His right hand. From these gifts flow all the blessings she has received.

I mentioned nothing about the term "Mother of God." The phrases I underlined all required explanation of how they don't say what they seem to say on the surface. They all are better and rightly said about Jesus.

But anything said about Mary is said about Jesus. That's what we've been trying to explain. They are inextricably intwined. You are seperating them just as Nestorius did. On the one hand - the Divine Son. On the other hand, the human Mary. But they are one in the Incarnation, because Jesus took flesh and humanity from the Blessed Virgin. To praise Mary is to praise Jesus. To be ravished by her beauty is to be in awe of her Creator Who thus made her.

There is nothing fuzzy or imprecise about this belief. On the contrary, its very precise and definite.

88 posted on 09/15/2003 6:28:11 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: drstevej
HTC - The most perfect way of doing this is to praise her and beg her assistance in attaching ourselves to Christ.

We do this by begging her to perfect our prayers to Christ. She can teach us the prefect love of Him. There is no worthier way of praying to Him than to conclude the prayers by praying to her.

89 posted on 09/15/2003 6:34:33 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
***But Mary is a living Bible, so to speak.***

We agree to disagree.

Romans 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
90 posted on 09/15/2003 6:37:49 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
***We do this by begging her to perfect our prayers to Christ.***

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
91 posted on 09/15/2003 6:40:18 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Nevertheless, the prayer suffers from fuzzy language at best.

When such questions come up, I find that it is not too difficult to find the answers. Indeed, the search for the answer usually takes me on a very instructive journey through Holy Scripture and Tradition!

92 posted on 09/15/2003 6:59:46 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: FormerLib
***the search for the answer usually takes me on a very instructive journey through Holy Scripture and Tradition! ***

Especially the later.

Shalom, my friend.
drstevej
93 posted on 09/15/2003 7:02:24 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; drstevej
My only objetion to the term "Mother of God" is that it CAN be misunderstood, not that it is untrue. Mary is the mother of Jesus, Jesus is God, Mary is the mother of God.

1 How can "Mother of God" possibly be misunderstood?

I'm beginning to understand why the early Christians would not allow catechumens to witness the Eucharist or even hear the Nicene Creed!

94 posted on 09/15/2003 7:03:31 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: drstevej
***the search for the answer usually takes me on a very instructive journey through Holy Scripture and Tradition! ***

Especially the later.

Goodness! Does this mean you find some value in Holy Tradition?!!!

95 posted on 09/15/2003 7:06:08 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: FormerLib
***Goodness! Does this mean you find some value in Holy Tradition?!!! ***

T'was talking about your search, not mine.

2 Tomothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
96 posted on 09/15/2003 7:15:11 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; Tantumergo
[1] Prove Rev 12:1 is a reference to Mary. Biblical sources please.

Rev. 12.5. "And she brought forth a male child, who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron." Mary brought for Jesus (Luke 2.6-21). Of Whom, we read "I will give Thee the nations for Thy inheritance, and the utmost parts of the earth for Thy possession. Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron ..." (Psalm 2.7-8)

How can this be any person but Mary?

[2] Demonstrate the linkage between the ark of Rev 11:19 and the woman of Revelation 12:1. Proximity doesn't equal identity.

We have established above the woman is Mary.

The Ark of the Covenant is not Christ. Psalm 131.8 says: "Arise, O Lord, into Thy resting place: Thou and the ark which Thou hast made of incorruptible wood."

The Ark of the Covenant contained the law of the old covenant given on Sinai, but Jesus Himself is the law of the new covenant (2 Cor. 3.2-18). Where before we had the Law, now we have Grace, the Life of God, Christ.

2 Corinthians 3.2 You are our epistle, written in our hearts, which is known and read by all men:
3 Being manifested, that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered by us, and written: not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God: not in tables of stone but in the fleshly tables of the heart.
4 And such confidence we have, through Christ, towards God.
5 Not that we are sufficient to think any thing of ourselves, as of ourselves: but our sufficiency is from God.
6 Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter but in the spirit. For the letter killeth: but the spirit quickeneth.
7 Now if the ministration of death, engraven with letters upon stones, was glorious (so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses, for the glory of his countenance), which is made void:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather in glory?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more the ministration of justice aboundeth in glory.
10 For even that which was glorious in this part was not glorified by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is in glory.
12 Having therefore such hope, we use much confidence.
13 And not as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel might not steadfastly look on the face of that which is made void.
14 But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void).
15 But even until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.
16 But when they shall be converted to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit. And where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, beholding the glory of the Lord with open face, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Just as the Ark of the Covenant contained the Old Law, so Mary contained Jesus.

Because the Mary and the Ark are linked in typology, and the woman is shown to be Mary, their proximity in the narrative is linked, and is not accidental.

97 posted on 09/15/2003 7:17:31 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I grant you point [1] and am unconvinced by point [2].

The mercy seat was the cover of the ark of the covenant and is where the blood was sprinkled by the High Priest to make atonement.

Explain how this relates to Mary as the ark.
98 posted on 09/15/2003 7:27:49 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Yes, the Spirit intercedes, and so does Christ, and so do the Saints. What of it?
99 posted on 09/15/2003 7:40:04 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: drstevej
The mercy seat was the cover of the ark of the covenant and is where the blood was sprinkled by the High Priest to make atonement.

Explain how this relates to Mary as the ark.

It doesn't directly - you are taking the typology too literally. Golgatha is where the blood of Christ was sprinkled, but it is hardly a type of the Ark, but rather a relation to Abel's sacrifice (Hebrews 12.24), and a show that Christ died for all men, because He died outside the Holy City.

Indirectly, the blood is sprinkled on all Christians through the reception of Baptism and especially the Eucharist. Anything done for all Christians is done preeminently in Blessed Mary. Just as in the Old Testament, the blood was primarily sprinkled on the Mercy Seat, but secondarily on all the people (Hebrews 9.19-22).

100 posted on 09/15/2003 7:49:40 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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