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The Rosary and Orthodoxy
WesternOrthodox.com ^

Posted on 09/15/2003 9:33:35 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker

The Rosary and Orthodoxy

From The Walsingham Way (Vol. II, No. I, Fall 1999), a newsletter of Western Orthodox spirituality published by the Orthodox Christian Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Some people have asked why the Orthodox don’t pray the Rosary as Roman Catholics and some other non-Orthodox do. Others object to Orthodox praying the Rosary since, in their view, this is not an Orthodox devotion, but peculiar to Roman Catholicism.

In hope of shedding some light on the subject, we publish the following letter of Father Alexander Gumanovsky, a spiritual son of Father Zosima, who was himself a spiritual son of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Fr. Alexander begins his letter with a quote from Fr. Zosima:

... I forgot to give you a piece of advice vital for salvation. Say the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin one hundred and fifty times, and this prayer will lead you on the way to salvation. This rule was given by the Mother of God herself in about the eighth century, and at one time all Christians fulfilled it. We Orthodox have forgotten about it, and St. Seraphim has reminded me of this Rule. In my hands I have a hand-written book from the cell of St. Seraphim, containing a description of the many miracles which took place through praying to the Mother of God and especially through saying one hundred and fifty times the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin. If, being unaccustomed to it, it is difficult to master one hundred and fifty repetitions daily, say it fifty times at first. After every ten repetitions say the Our Father once and Open unto us the doors of thy loving-kindness1. Whomever he spoke to about this miracle-working Rule remained grateful to him…

The elder Zosima greatly valued and loved Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky and always spoke of him as that saintly Bishop. Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and; when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in is this Rule whole life of the Queen of Heaven.

He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:

First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.

Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.

Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God—let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.

Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.

Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.

Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.

Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.

Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.

Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: They have no wine (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.

Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.

Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.

Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.

Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me (Psalm 51).

Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.

Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.

After every decade Bishop Seraphim prayed his own prayers, which he revealed to no one, so that only the Lord and the Queen of Heaven knew these prayers.

Thus, we can see that the Rosary is a completely Orthodox form of devotion to our Lady.

Those who follow the Western tradition should follow one of the standard forms, i.e. the opening consisting of the Sign of the Cross followed by the Lord’s Prayer; or O Lord, open Thou my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Thy praise and the Glory be… followed by the Lord’s Prayer and the Angelic Salutation (three times). After this, either five or fifteen decades (each preceded by the appropriate mystery) are recited; and after the decades, the conclusion consisting of the Regina Coeli and the appropriate collect.

Those who follow the Eastern tradition could very easily follow the form cited above, ending with the hymn, It is truly meet to call thee blessed.

What is essential is to daily seek the intercessions of the Mother of God, so that in drawing closer to her, we may be drawn closer to her Son, our Savior, Jesus, with whom she now reigns eternally in Heaven.

1. The Full text of the prayer is: Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray; but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian people.


TOPICS: Catholic; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; orthodox; prayer; rosary; stseraphim
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To: FormerLib; drstevej
It doesn't. Here's what the teaching means:

It is important to note that the prefix "co" in the title Coredemptrix does not mean "equal to" but rather "with", coming from the Latin word cum. The Marian title Coredemptrix never places Mary on a level of equality with her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. Rather it refers to Mary's unique human participation which is completely secondary and subordinate to the redeeming role of Jesus, who alone is true God and true Man.

61 posted on 09/15/2003 1:30:47 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: drstevej
And you would have us ignore the countless examples of the Light of Christ shining through His creations as we pray for It to shine through us.

Each and every saint that we commemorate is an example that His Light can shine through us. When we celebrate them, we celebrate Him first and foremost. But that doesn't fit the interpretation of others and so they accuse us of blasphemy.

I contend that there is no blasphemy in our hearts, our minds, or our practices.

And that is my point.

62 posted on 09/15/2003 1:31:46 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: drstevej
"John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me [NOT ME AND MARY]."

But Steve, Moses did indeed write of Mary:

Gen 3,15 "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: s/he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her/his heel."
63 posted on 09/15/2003 1:37:09 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: eastsider
***Can you direct me to the scriptural statement that Jesus is the antitype of the ark?***

No. Nor do I believe it is certain that He is.
64 posted on 09/15/2003 1:44:40 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Tantumergo
Granted Genesis 3:15 speaks of Mary. I think my point is still valid in context.
65 posted on 09/15/2003 1:45:42 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: FormerLib
I never accused you of blasphemy.

I inferred that the statements without qualifications ascribe to Mary that which pertains to Christ, hence it flirts with blasphemy.
66 posted on 09/15/2003 1:47:53 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
I hope you understand that when you enter the discussion with "Help me see how this isn't blasphemous," you've already raised a few hackles.
67 posted on 09/15/2003 1:51:51 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: Salvation
I don't foresee this being told to me in Heaven:
200 Hail Mary's? Whoa... too bad, you overshot the mark. Bub-bye!

*grin*
68 posted on 09/15/2003 1:52:28 PM PDT by dangus
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To: FormerLib
Not intended.

Candidly, my initial reaction when I read the prayer (I had not seen it before) was shock in that it replaced Jesus with Mary. I tried to phrase my question diplomatically (believe me I can be far less diplomatic... ask the LDS).

:~)
69 posted on 09/15/2003 1:55:42 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
I inferred that the statements without qualifications ascribe to Mary that which pertains to Christ...

I can certainly accept the idea that among those who have rejected Holy Tradition, there is much within Holy Tradition to misinterpret. This does not, however, invalidate Holy Tradition anymore than does those who find support for same-sex marriage within Holy Scripture to invalidate Holy Scripture (going for an extremem case to make the point).

Hopefully, I can one day persuade you to accept that as well.

70 posted on 09/15/2003 1:56:19 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: drstevej
"The phrases I underlined all required explanation of how they don't say what they seem to say on the surface. They all are better and rightly said about Jesus.

Give me the primary and I'll leave the secondary for others."

You are working on the assumption (no pun intended!) that to say something about Mary and the saints which can also be said, or said in a primary way, about Christ, is to necessarily detract from the uniqueness of Christ or the glory that is due to Him alone.

This is not the case and there is a very similar parallel in Protestant jargon. What is the Word of God? We would all agree that the primary meaning of this phrase is the second person of the Holy Trinity - Jesus Christ. But also we all agree that it is acceptable to use this term in its secondary meaning - about the bible.

Would it be reasonable to assume that using the title "Word of God" about the bible in any way detracts from the honour and glory that are due to Christ alone?
71 posted on 09/15/2003 2:02:26 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: drstevej
Candidly, my initial reaction when I read the prayer (I had not seen it before) was shock in that it replaced Jesus with Mary.

Quite alright.

I had a long discussion about a similar topic with my Priest concerning a litany which ended with the phrase, "Holy Theotokos, save us!" Our Orthodox teachings are clear that it is Christ that does the saving (going for brevity here) not Mary. He explained that the problem is that a literal translation of the Greek is being used here when the true meaning is "Pray to your Son to save us!" This is actually a statement of our desire to have Christ in our lives, the only true path to salvation.

When the true meaning is known, no suggestion of blasphemy will be found in the words.

72 posted on 09/15/2003 2:02:47 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: Tantumergo
Would it be reasonable to assume that using the title "Word of God" about the bible in any way detracts from the honour and glory that are due to Christ alone?

You know, that's quite good.

73 posted on 09/15/2003 2:03:54 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: drstevej
Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding your posts, but are you saying that only those things, places or events in the OT that are alluded to allegorically in the NT can properly be called "types?" For example, to my knowledge, Abraham's abortive sacrifice of his son Isaac is not spoken of in the NT as a type of the Father's offering up the Son as a sacrifice. Would you say that it was "speculation" to say that the former event was a "type" of the latter, or that Isaac was a "type" of Jesus?
74 posted on 09/15/2003 2:23:59 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: FormerLib
I've been taught the Jesus prayer. Recently, the Pope elevated St. Faustina, of Poland, who taught a similar "rosary,"* which could be sung. In the place of the Hail Mary's one would sing or recite this prayer, which is of a very similar spirit to the Jesus prayer:

"For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

On the Our Father's, "Eternal Father, I offer you the body and blood, soul and divinity of your dearly beloved Son, our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins, and those of the whole world."

75 posted on 09/15/2003 2:37:37 PM PDT by dangus
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To: FormerLib
Must be the influence of all those Greeks I hang around with! ;)
76 posted on 09/15/2003 2:44:56 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: eastsider
***Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding your posts, but are you saying that only those things, places or events in the OT that are alluded to allegorically in the NT can properly be called "types?"***

No. I am saying that caution must be exercised that we do not read meaning into the text which was not intended. Otherwise, allegorists are unrestrained.

***For example, to my knowledge, Abraham's abortive sacrifice of his son Isaac is not spoken of in the NT as a type of the Father's offering up the Son as a sacrifice. Would you say that it was "speculation" to say that the former event was a "type" of the latter, or that Isaac was a "type" of Jesus? ***

It is true that the word type is not used of Abraham's offering of Isaac, however, the book of Hebrews make the correlation plain...

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure [PARABOLH).

The linkage between the Passover and Christ is plain (1 Corinthians 5:7). Between Adam and Christ is plain (Ro. 5:14), etc.

Here is some material I pulled together a while back:

Degree of Cerrtainty in Types:
[1] Innate Types - types specifically declared as such in the New Testament.


[2] Inferred Types - types intended by the Holy Spirit but not declared as such.

”It can not be emphasized too strongly that types which do not have express scriptural authority are illustrative rather than proof for doctrinal points.” Walvoord

[3] Invented Types - speculative types, eisegesis.

“Temptations to be novel, clever, original or shocking should be resisted... A teacher of the Bible should not boast of finding more types than other teachers because he is more spiritual.” Ramm

“Typology has suffered more from its friends than its foes.” Chafer
77 posted on 09/15/2003 3:30:29 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
The Rosary

And more about the Rosary

78 posted on 09/15/2003 3:31:47 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: FormerLib
***When the true meaning is known, no suggestion of blasphemy will be found in the words.***

Nevertheless, the prayer suffers from fuzzy language at best.
79 posted on 09/15/2003 3:31:47 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Tantumergo
The written word (Scripures) and the living word (Christ) are both rightly called the Word of God. They testify to each other. Jesus authenticates the Scriptures and the Scriptures authenticate Jesus. In this sense neither are secondary.

Granted that Jesus as God is a member of the trinity and the Scriptures are a witness to Him. So if you call that secondary, I won't protest.

I will restate my point.

Give me the primary as fully primary and I will let the secondary be secondary to the extent the Scriptures allow. But don't inflate the secondary -- keep it the right size.

80 posted on 09/15/2003 3:44:19 PM PDT by drstevej
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