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The Rosary and Orthodoxy
WesternOrthodox.com ^

Posted on 09/15/2003 9:33:35 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker

The Rosary and Orthodoxy

From The Walsingham Way (Vol. II, No. I, Fall 1999), a newsletter of Western Orthodox spirituality published by the Orthodox Christian Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Some people have asked why the Orthodox don’t pray the Rosary as Roman Catholics and some other non-Orthodox do. Others object to Orthodox praying the Rosary since, in their view, this is not an Orthodox devotion, but peculiar to Roman Catholicism.

In hope of shedding some light on the subject, we publish the following letter of Father Alexander Gumanovsky, a spiritual son of Father Zosima, who was himself a spiritual son of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Fr. Alexander begins his letter with a quote from Fr. Zosima:

... I forgot to give you a piece of advice vital for salvation. Say the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin one hundred and fifty times, and this prayer will lead you on the way to salvation. This rule was given by the Mother of God herself in about the eighth century, and at one time all Christians fulfilled it. We Orthodox have forgotten about it, and St. Seraphim has reminded me of this Rule. In my hands I have a hand-written book from the cell of St. Seraphim, containing a description of the many miracles which took place through praying to the Mother of God and especially through saying one hundred and fifty times the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin. If, being unaccustomed to it, it is difficult to master one hundred and fifty repetitions daily, say it fifty times at first. After every ten repetitions say the Our Father once and Open unto us the doors of thy loving-kindness1. Whomever he spoke to about this miracle-working Rule remained grateful to him…

The elder Zosima greatly valued and loved Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky and always spoke of him as that saintly Bishop. Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and; when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in is this Rule whole life of the Queen of Heaven.

He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:

First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.

Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.

Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God—let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.

Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.

Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.

Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.

Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.

Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.

Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: They have no wine (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.

Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.

Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.

Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.

Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me (Psalm 51).

Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.

Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.

After every decade Bishop Seraphim prayed his own prayers, which he revealed to no one, so that only the Lord and the Queen of Heaven knew these prayers.

Thus, we can see that the Rosary is a completely Orthodox form of devotion to our Lady.

Those who follow the Western tradition should follow one of the standard forms, i.e. the opening consisting of the Sign of the Cross followed by the Lord’s Prayer; or O Lord, open Thou my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Thy praise and the Glory be… followed by the Lord’s Prayer and the Angelic Salutation (three times). After this, either five or fifteen decades (each preceded by the appropriate mystery) are recited; and after the decades, the conclusion consisting of the Regina Coeli and the appropriate collect.

Those who follow the Eastern tradition could very easily follow the form cited above, ending with the hymn, It is truly meet to call thee blessed.

What is essential is to daily seek the intercessions of the Mother of God, so that in drawing closer to her, we may be drawn closer to her Son, our Savior, Jesus, with whom she now reigns eternally in Heaven.

1. The Full text of the prayer is: Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray; but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian people.


TOPICS: Catholic; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; orthodox; prayer; rosary; stseraphim
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
A quote I googled which relates the mercy seat to Christ as our propitiation...

John's fourth stated purpose in the sending of the Son is that He would be the propitiation for our sins. The word propitiation is found in our text and also in 2:2 of this epistle. The same root word is used in Romans 3:25. A related word, with the same significance, is found in Hebrews 2:17 where it is unfortunately translated as "reconciliation" in the KJV. The original word is used again in Hebrews 9:5 where it is translated as the "mercy-seat" and could have been rendered as the "propitiatory." The typology then in our text takes us back to the mercy seat, the covering for the ark of the covenant in the tabernacle designed by God to show forth the glories of Christ. The lid of the ark, the mercy-seat, was made of pure gold and had a cherub on either end "with their wings stretched forth on high, covering the mercy-seat with their wings, and their faces looking one to another and toward the mercy-seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Exodus 25:17-21). God said, "I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy-seat" (Leviticus 16:2). He also promised, "There I will meet with thee and will commune with thee from above the mercy-seat" (Exodus 25:22). It was on the Day of Atonement that Aaron was to sprinkle blood upon and before the mercy-seat, which was called the propitiatory. The blood was the ground of approach and the ground of acceptance. For us, the Son of God became the propitiator and the propitiation, and the propitiatory.
101 posted on 09/15/2003 8:00:22 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
***Yes, the Spirit intercedes, and so does Christ, and so do the Saints.***

"Don't be sad, Cause two outa' three ain't bad."
- Meatloaf

HtC, my brain is fried for the evening. Perhaps more tomorrow.
102 posted on 09/15/2003 8:02:36 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
T'was talking about your search, not mine.

Which is why I was amazed that you suggested I'd find more in the latter (Holy Tradition) than in the former (Holy Scripture)!

2 Tomothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Of course, Paul was referring to the Old Testament and he would have taken exception to the idea that you were referring to his words as being Scripture.

But I am not here to contradict anything that Scripture teaches, only to suggest that it was accurate when it taught us to keep the Traditions that they taught us.

103 posted on 09/15/2003 9:06:12 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: FormerLib
Thanks for the pleasant debate FL.

Proddies and Catlicks can discuss issues graciously. :~)
104 posted on 09/15/2003 9:09:33 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; Hermann the Cherusker; MarMema; The_Reader_David; katnip
***Yes, the Spirit intercedes, and so does Christ, and so do the Saints.***

"Don't be sad, Cause two outa' three ain't bad." - Meatloaf

While the pagans would assure us that all of our saints are simply dead men, the Christian knows better. The Christian knows that they are alive in Christ! And with them being alive, why should we not ask for their prayers? Do we not ask our loved ones for theirs?

Are we no different than the pagans?

It is not dead bones that we acknowledge, but the souls of the righteous made perfect in Christ.

Or what am I missing?

105 posted on 09/15/2003 9:11:37 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: drstevej
No Romans here!

100% Orthodox! ;-)

106 posted on 09/15/2003 9:12:40 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: drstevej
Thanks for the pleasant debate FL.

And I'd guess I'd be remiss if I didn't say, "Iron sharpens iron."

107 posted on 09/15/2003 9:14:15 PM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: FormerLib
Didn't realize you are Ortho.

I like the long beards, might have to introduce them as Pope Piel I (that is if Mrs. Pope Piel will let me grow one).
108 posted on 09/15/2003 9:19:05 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej; Hermann the Cherusker; FormerLib
To understand the typology of the Ark with respect to Mary, it helps to look at the Lucan accounts first, where it is obvious that the early Christians already had a devotion to Mary as Ark of the new Covenant.

Here is a homily I gave a few weeks ago which deals with this exact subject. The relevant gospel passage is Luke 1, 39-56:

The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary – Day Mass

For anyone who prays the Rosary, today’s Gospel is very familiar because St. Luke is telling us about Mary’s visitation to her cousin Elizabeth. It also contains Mary’s famous hymn of praise to God – the Magnificat.

But we are going to take a slightly different look at it today, because we ought to ask ourselves a couple of questions “What has the Visitation got to do with the Feast of the Assumption?”, and also “What has it got to do with that reading about 7 headed dragons trying to eat babies as soon as they are born?”

But there is an important link between these two readings, which was obvious to first century Greek-speaking Jewish Christians. We miss it because we don’t think like them and we don’t know our Old Testament well enough. When I was trying to explain this on paper, I realised that the only way it would make sense is if you had a bible in front of you. As we haven’t got enough bibles to go round – we’ve got the next best thing – a photocopy! (It will make up for not having a newsletter to read during the homily!!)

St. Luke, like many of the New Testament authors is a literary artist, and he is very good at telling his story in a way that is meant to make you think of other stories you have heard. When he tells us that St. John the Baptist LEAPED in his mother’s womb at Mary’s arrival, he uses a very rare Greek word “eskiptesen”. This word only occurs in one other place in the Greek bible. And that’s in 2nd Samuel Chapter 6 where David LEAPED with all his might before the Ark of the Covenant. St. Luke deploys this word deliberately to make his readers think of this story of David going to retrieve the lost Ark.

If you look at the sheets in front of you will see that Luke drives his point home by lifting other phrases directly from 2 Samuel. He tells us that Mary AROSE AND WENT, just like David AROSE AND WENT. She goes to the HILL COUNTRY OF JUDAH, just as DAVID went to the HILL COUNTRY OF JUDAH. Elizabeth greets Mary with the words “WHENCE IS THIS TO ME THAT THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME?” just as David greeted the Ark with the words “HOW CAN THE ARK OF THE LORD COME TO ME?” The Ark stays in the home of OBEDEDOM THE GITTITE for 3 MONTHS after which the household is blessed by God and all his womenfolk fall pregnant! Just as Mary stays in the home of Elizabeth for 3 MONTHS, after which Elizabeth gives birth to a healthy baby boy!

You are probably wondering “What’s the point of all this?” – but the point is that Luke wants us to know that Our Lady is the NEW Ark of the Covenant. The old Ark of the Covenant was a box (a bit bigger than our tabernacle) made of Acacia wood, covered in gold and crowned with 2 golden cherubim. It contained the Word of God written on Tablets of stone, some Manna – the bread from heaven, and the High Priestly rod of Aaron. It was the holiest object on earth, and it was the Ark that made the Jewish temple holy - when it was placed in the holy of holies – in the sanctuary. In contrast Our Lady bore in her own womb the Word of God enfleshed, the true bread of Heaven in the Body of Christ, who was also the Royal High Priest-King.

The Ark had been lost for 600 years. Jeremiah had hidden it before the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. No-one has found it ever since.
But Luke is now telling us that the old Ark was only a pale shadow or type of the true Ark to come – Mary the Mother of God! St. Luke is being very coded about the way he reveals this to us. But I can only offer you Cardinal Newman’s suggestion as to the reason for this. It is probable that Luke doesn’t want to be too obvious about her identity
because Our Lady was still alive on earth when he wrote his gospel!

However, it is because the New Testament authors understood Our Lady to be the Ark of the Covenant that we can make sense of the reading from St. John’s Apocalypse today. The Apocalypse or Revelation was probably written between September 69 AD and March 70 AD. Just before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. In his vision John sees God’s judgement being passed on the earthly temple and its leaders. The old covenant and old temple are coming to an end and being replaced by the new covenant and the heavenly temple. The Ark that has been lost for so long suddenly reappears in the temple in heaven and it’s a woman. It is Our Lady who has by now been assumed body and soul into heaven.

But John uses the word “Woman” deliberately, because the scene is also a replay of that first book of the bible where Man and Woman battled with a serpent and lost. (The Hebrew word for dragon “nahash” is the same word they used for serpent). But whereas the defeat of Adam and Eve by the serpent lead to death entering the world, the new Adam and new Eve are victorious over the dragon. By his obedience unto death on the cross, Christ destroys the death of Adam’s disobedience, and by Mary’s obedience she “unties the knot of Eve’s disobedience.” Through Jesus and Mary, mankind is able to receive new life again, come back into friendship with God, and enter heaven.

By giving birth to Christ Mary also gives birth to his members and so is the new mother of all the living. By her Assumption into heaven she truly becomes the life, the sweetness and the hope of all her earthly children. She is our life because we are called to be Arks of the Covenant too – the Word of God is engraved on our hearts, we are nourished by the bread of life, and we are anointed prophets, priests and kings. She is our sweetness because she is our Heavenly Mother and Christ dispenses all His graces to us through her hands. She is our hope because her destiny will be our destiny too if, like her, we remain in friendship with Christ, and do whatev
109 posted on 09/16/2003 12:58:17 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: FormerLib
No Romans here!
100% Orthodox! ;-)

Wait! Aren't the Orthodox the real Romans? The Rumi or Romanoi if you prefer?

110 posted on 09/16/2003 5:01:43 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Tantumergo
This is a great homily, but I must take issue with one line:

The Ark had been lost for 600 years. Jeremiah had hidden it before the Babylonians invaded Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. No-one has found it ever since.

The Ark is in the Church of St. Mary of Zion at Axum, in Ethiopia, guarded by a Priest of the Ethiopian Church. I personally think Isaiah 18 is a pretty clear indication of this.

111 posted on 09/16/2003 5:31:53 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Aren't the Orthodox the real Romans?

The Byzantines could have made that ethnic claim but their faith had expanded to many lands before their fall and I hail from one of those.

112 posted on 09/16/2003 7:00:22 AM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: FormerLib
The Byzantines could have made that ethnic claim but their faith had expanded to many lands before their fall and I hail from one of those.

I don't view it as an ethnic claim. As the Patriarch Anthony of Constantinople famously wrote to Basil I of Russia in 1393, the East Roman Emperor "is elected Emperor and Autokrator of the Romans, that is of all Christians."

The Catholic Church commemorated the Emperor of Austria-Hungary as the West Roman Emperor in the same way up to the fall of the Empire. There were prayers for him in the Canon, on Good Friday, and in the Collects for use ad libitum by the Priest at most Masses durign the year.

There is much more to be said of this, but not here.

113 posted on 09/16/2003 7:59:44 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
The Catholic Church commemorated the Emperor of Austria-Hungary as the West Roman Emperor in the same way up to the fall of the Empire.

I didn't know that but it certainly explains a lot about that empire!

114 posted on 09/16/2003 10:14:22 AM PDT by FormerLib (There's no hope on the left!)
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To: FormerLib
The Catholic Church commemorated the Emperor of Austria-Hungary as the West Roman Emperor in the same way up to the fall of the Empire.

I didn't know that but it certainly explains a lot about that empire!

From around the late 1400's or early 1500's the Habsburgs held the throne of the Holy Roman Empire. They had a power of veto over the selection of the Pope of Rome, last exercised to prevent the election of the freemason Cardinal Rampolla in 1903, thus causing the election to the See of Peter to fall instead to St. Pius X.

You might find the website of the 91 year, Otto von Habsburg, of interest. He is not the true pretender, however, since he renounced his rights in 1961. That falls to his eldest son, Karl (he has seven children).

115 posted on 09/16/2003 10:36:24 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
"The Ark is in the Church of St. Mary of Zion at Axum, in Ethiopia, guarded by a Priest of the Ethiopian Church. I personally think Isaiah 18 is a pretty clear indication of this."

It might be, but I have heard so many tales of the discovery of the Ark in recent years, that I tend to be a little sceptical about them.

Many middle eastern countries had arks of course, but apart from Israel's they tended to have an effigy of the queen mother enthroned on the mercy seat.

Which of course is another OT type of Mary - the Gebirah or Queen Mother!!!!!
116 posted on 09/16/2003 11:24:18 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo
It might be, but I have heard so many tales of the discovery of the Ark in recent years, that I tend to be a little sceptical about them.

This hasn't been discovered "recently". It was the only claim going for a long time.

Graham Hancock has put together a very persuasive historical argument to trace the path down to Ethiopia in "The Sign and the Seal" some excerpts of which are here. An intersting summation of the evidence he presents is also to be found here.

Many middle eastern countries had arks of course, but apart from Israel's they tended to have an effigy of the queen mother enthroned on the mercy seat.

From the second site linked:

Subsequent to this initial investigation, we located and interviewed two people who have claimed to have seen the object resting in St. Mary's of Zion. The first was a 105-year-old priest who once was the administrator at St. Mary's of Zion. On two occasions, he said, when the Guardian of the Ark died and a new guardian was trained in the worship rituals, he was able to gaze upon the relic. He described it as a gold box with two winged angels on top.

117 posted on 09/16/2003 11:45:39 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
The Ethiopians have an interesting account of how they came by the Ark, but it does not fit with the account found in Holy Scripture:

2 Macc 2,1 "Now it is found in the descriptions of Jeremias the prophet, that he commanded them that went into captivity, to take the fire, as it hath been signified, and how he gave charge to them that were carried away into captivity.
2 And how he gave them the law that they should not forget the commandments of the Lord, and that they should not err in their minds, seeing the idols of gold, and silver, and the ornaments of them.
3 And with other such like speeches, he exhorted them that they would not remove the law from their heart.
4 It was also contained in the same writing, how the prophet, being warned by God, commanded that the tabernacle and the ark should accompany him, till he came forth to the mountain " where Moses went up, and saw the inheritance of God.
5 And when Jeremias came thither he found a hollow cave: and he carried in thither the tabernacle, and the ark, and the altar of incense, and so stopped the door.
6 Then some of them that followed him, came up to mark the place: but they could not And it.
7 And when Jeremias perceived it, he blamed them, saying: The place shall be unknown, till God gather together the congregation of the people, and receive them to mercy.
8 And then the Lord will shew these things, and the majesty of the Lord shall appear, and there shall be a cloud as it was also shewed to Moses, "and he shewed it when Solomon prayed that the place might be sanctified to the great God."

How do you think the Ethiopian account and the Scriptural account can be reconciled?

Or is it more likely that what the Ethiopians have is not the real Ark?
118 posted on 09/16/2003 1:02:22 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: FormerLib
I'm beginning to understand why the early Christians would not allow catechumens to witness the Eucharist or even hear the Nicene Creed!
I came back to see if this thread was going anywhere, and found this gem. LOL : )
119 posted on 09/18/2003 8:14:24 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Rosary search--Our Lady of the Rosary Memorial
120 posted on 10/07/2003 2:32:14 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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