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What did the Second Vatican Council do for us?
TCR News ^ | Current | Fr. Ian Ker

Posted on 08/03/2003 2:57:52 PM PDT by NYer

Forty years on, we are only just beginning to understand the significance of the
Council, says Fr Ian Ker. And we are still a long way from implementing it

It is 40 years since the opening of the Second Vatican Council. The Council was convoked by Pope John XXIII for two purposes: the renewal or aggiornamento of the Catholic Church and Christian reunion - two goals which are surely integrally related. The Pope expressed the hope that it would be the beginning of a new Pentecost for the Church.

There have, indeed, been substantial achievements. A nineteenth century Catholic would be amazed at the transformation of the papacy. Pius IX, who denounced democracy and progress and who had to be defended against his own subjects in the papal states by foreign mercenaries, would have been surprised at the thought of one of his successors travelling round the world and upholding human rights and justice. In Catholic countries, where formerly the Church was ready to turn a blind eye to political abuses in return for a guarantee of its privileges and rights, the Church is, or is expected to be, at the forefront of protest against the infringement of people's freedoms and rights. Similarly, what was once a fortress Church is now seriously engaged in dialogue with non-Christian religions as well as other Christian bodies. Internally, too, there have been significant reforms in a number of areas. There is a new code of canon law. New instruments of collegiality and subsidiarity have been put into place. No one would now say, as a famous English monsignore of the nineteenth century asserted, that the province of the laity was to hunt, shoot, and to fish. The vernacular has been introduced into the Mass and the other sacraments and few would wish to return to a wholly Latin rite.

However, inevitably there have been problems and distortions. The pursuit of justice and peace has sometimes seemed to supersede the preaching of the Gospel. The Council's teaching on the role of the laity has, paradoxically, led to a certain clericalisation of the laity, and bishops have often given the impression that the way to implement the decree on the laity is to build up as large a bureaucracy as possible and set up innumerable committees and commissions. Indeed, at times it seems that human organisation has made the Spirit redundant. This has also affected the search for Christian unity, which is not always best served by proliferating ecumenical structures. There too there have been serious aberrations which, to use the old pre-Vatican II word, can only be termed as encouraging indifferentism. In spite of the Council's call for a renewal of the rite of reconciliation, the practice of confession has catastrophically declined; some claim that the answer is general absolution, but sacraments are personal not collective. Finally, and most serious from the point of view of the ordinary Catholic, the English vernacular translations have proved less than satisfactory in their banality and infidelity to the Latin original.

It will take time to get the right balance; there were bound to be exaggerations and misinterpretations. In reaction to the Protestant reformation, Trent had emphasised those doctrines that were under attack, which led to the inevitable neglect of those other Catholic doctrines, like the priesthood of all believers, that the Reformers were stressing. That has also happened in the wake of Vatican II. As Cardinal John Henry Newman remarked, one council does one thing and another another. Moreover, what councils don't say is also significant. Thus evangelisation was not a theme of the Council, with the inevitable unfortunate consequences - that is, until Paul VI's Evangelii Nuntiandi (1974) moved the Church in a new direction.

Few would say it has been a very Pentecostal time. For many, it has seemed more like a Golgotha, with falling Mass attendances and declining vocations, at least in most of the developed world. For others, it has been like a blighted spring, in which high hopes have been dashed by the failure to pursue the progressive agenda.

As a student of Newman, who is often referred to as the "father of the Second Vatican Council", I take comfort from his reflections at the time of the First Vatican Council. There are several points he makes which are I think very relevant to our own post-conciliar situation. First, he warned that patience is called for as time finds remedies for what seem insuperable problems. Second, he pointed out that time is also needed for the implementation of conciliar teachings. There are two reasons for this. In the first place, implementation requires interpretation: texts do not speak for themselves, they have to be read and digested and elucidated.

There was an idea immediately after the Council that bishops could simply return to their dioceses and implement the Council. That was a very simplistic idea. Some obvious changes or reforms can be implemented in this way, others take time and involve a number of different parties. Certainly, authority is involved through the pope and bishops: John Paul II has more than played his part in this, as have other charismatic bishops like Cardinal Lustiger of Paris with his radical reform of the seminary system. But it is not only the magisterium that is involved. Other parts of the Church also have a responsibility for the realisation of Vatican II. Theologians have their role to play as exegetes of the conciliar texts, which have to be understood in relation to the tradition of the Church and to previous councils and magisterial teachings. The grassroots faithful baptised, whether priests or religious or laity, also take part in the process of the reception of a council. And last, but by no means least, those endowed with special charisms - and these charisms are given for the needs of the Church, not least at the time of a council. Thus the Ignatian charism was providential for the implementation of the Council of Trent, since without the Society of Jesus it is hard to see how the Tridentine reforms could ever been carried out.

There is a further clue to be found in Newman's writings about how the post-conciliar Church is likely to develop. At the beginning of his most famous theological work, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine , he says that it is not true of a religious idea or belief that "the stream is clearest near the spring". On the contrary, it

"is more equable, and purer, and stronger, when its bed has become deep, and broad, and full. It necessarily rises out of an existing state of things, and for a time savours of the soil. Its vital element needs disengaging from what is foreign and temporary..."

If we can apply this to the teachings of Vatican II, then we have to conclude that the meaning of the Council will become clearer in the course of time and that even those who participated in it are less likely to understand its full significance than later generations. If we are too close to something, we may not see it as it really is. And Newman's expression "savours of the soil" reminds us that the soil out of which the Council came was the sixties and that "its vital element needs disengaging from what is foreign and temporary". I believe that what is called "the spirit of Vatican II" is precisely that interpretation of the Council which savours of the Sixties, and until its "vital element" is disengaged from what is essentially "foreign and temporary" the Council will not bear the fruit it was intended to.

I remember a newspaper article by Bishop BC Butler in the Seventies to the effect that Vatican II could not be implemented until the older generation that was too set in its ways to really accept the Council had passed away. I am sure that was true, but it is also true of the generations that came to maturity in the Sixties and Seventies and who experienced the Council as though it were a revolution rather than simply another development in the Church's history and tradition. Until all those who saw or see Vatican II as a complete break with the Church's past have disappeared from the scene the Council will continue to be misunderstood.

Finally, as Pope John Paul II has said, one of the most important achievements of the Council was the rediscovery of the charismatic dimension of the Church. The Pope also sees the new ecclesial movements and communities as being an answer to Pope John's dream of a new Pentecost. This unexpected phenomenon was not planned or predicted by Vatican II, but nevertheless it represents a concrete realisation of the Council's Constitution on the Church, at the heart of which is the idea of communion between all the baptised whatever their state in the Church, whether clerical or religious or lay. That is why the new communities and movements are ecclesial and not lay as they are often called. It is interesting how those who claim to have "the spirit of Vatican II" are the very people in the Church who most dislike this great charismatic outburst, and who even ludicrously try to argue that it is "against Vatican II".

This article first appeared in the 11th October 2002 issue of
The Catholic Herald. Copyright © 2002 Fr. Ian Ker, Oxford. All Rights Reserved


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: ecumenism; novusordo; vaticancouncilii
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While I may be a glutton for punishment for posting this thread, and I fully expect the contentious wrath of other posters to this forum, this article sheds light on some of the positive outcomes. Though hope springs eternal, my tin foil hat is in place.
1 posted on 08/03/2003 2:57:52 PM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
I believe that what is called "the spirit of Vatican II" is precisely that interpretation of the Council which savours of the Sixties, and until its "vital element" is disengaged from what is essentially "foreign and temporary" the Council will not bear the fruit it was intended to.

It will take time but it will occur. Some of that "fruit" will come from the converts to the faith.

2 posted on 08/03/2003 3:03:48 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
**my tin foil hat is in place.**

Is you flame suit on also? LOL!!
3 posted on 08/03/2003 3:34:48 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer
Until all those who saw or see Vatican II as a complete break with the Church's past have disappeared from the scene the Council will continue to be misunderstood.

That means another thirty years. In the meanwhile, the stream remains murky and turbulent.

4 posted on 08/03/2003 3:46:35 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Salvation
Is you flame suit on also?

Of course ... the latest model!

5 posted on 08/03/2003 4:27:01 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: RobbyS
In the meanwhile, the stream remains murky and turbulent.

A good analogy.

6 posted on 08/03/2003 4:29:14 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
I'm still waiting for an answer to the question in the title. The author says there were "achievements," then he lists
1. The transformation of the papacy (is this a good thing?)
2. The Church joining the liberal political revolution (is this a good thing?)
3. Ecumenical dialogue (is this a good thing?)

I would expect that he could find at least 1 thing that everyone could agree was something good that Vatican II brought us. Even Mussolini made the trains run on time. Even the Communist revolution in Russia increased tractor production. Can't he find even 1 comparable item?

Regarding point 2, in which the author praises the abandonment of officially Catholic countries, and the new position by the Church of supporting revolution, one should read the article on Columbia by Michael Rose in Catholic World Report. He graphically describes the "progress" achieved by a country which dropped article 1 from its constitution ("Columbia is a Catholic country") and which is now racked by violence, reduced to virtual chaos, there is no real government, and even the Church is reduced to helplessness as bishops are kidnapped and assassinated.

If this is the best the author can do in terms of finding "achievements" of Vatican II, then one would hate to see the "failures."

7 posted on 08/03/2003 4:35:29 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: RobbyS
Until all those who saw or see Vatican II as a complete break with the Church's past have disappeared from the scene the Council will continue to be misunderstood.

In other words, wait for traditionalists to die off. This sentence is incredibly frightening in its implications. Fortunately, it will not come to pass. The traditionalist movement is rapidly gaining ground among the younger generations. The exact opposite is set to happen.

8 posted on 08/03/2003 4:42:23 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: As you well know...; ultima ratio
I remember a newspaper article by Bishop BC Butler in the Seventies to the effect that Vatican II could not be implemented until the older generation that was too set in its ways to really accept the Council had passed away. I am sure that was true, but it is also true of the generations that came to maturity in the Sixties and Seventies and who experienced the Council as though it were a revolution rather than simply another development in the Church's history and tradition. Until all those who saw or see Vatican II as a complete break with the Church's past have disappeared from the scene the Council will continue to be misunderstood.

You must see this.

9 posted on 08/03/2003 4:44:22 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The traditionalist movement is rapidly gaining ground among the younger generations.

Where are your statistics to back this up?

This is wishful thinking, Deborah.

Bishops should insist on the implementation of the new GIRM and extend the availability of the Tridentine Mass. Allow choices.

Don't think that FR is not reflective of the Church at large.

10 posted on 08/03/2003 4:57:16 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Messina, Brad! Messina!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: NYer
Until all those who saw or see Vatican II as a complete break with the Church's past have disappeared from the scene the Council will continue to be misunderstood.

The traditional movement is tiny, and the radicals who insist on tinkering with the Mass are reaching old age.

I know I'll likely be dead when John XXIII's vision reaches reality, but it is inevitable.

11 posted on 08/03/2003 5:03:21 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Messina, Brad! Messina!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: Maximilian
1. The transformation of the papacy (is this a good thing?)

Yes

2. The Church joining the liberal political revolution (is this a good thing?

It should be expected when the people of the church are subjected to the liberal education system and the liberal culture.

3. Ecumenical dialogue (is this a good thing?)

Yes

12 posted on 08/03/2003 5:11:57 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: NYer
"Forty years on, we are only just beginning to understand the significance of the Council, says Fr Ian Ker."

Whose fault is that? Had the Council used clear and unambiguous language, it would have been readily understood. What it has become is a Rorschach test: those in power see what they want to see in it, then impose their views on the rest of us. The truth is, it is not the big deal it has been made out to be; it is a failed council that has resulted in a lot of damage to the Church because it hadn't even the courage of its own Catholic convictions. It deserves to be forgotten as quickly as possible.
13 posted on 08/03/2003 5:12:13 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: sinkspur
Most of the families who are traditional are young--and large. It is not true that traditionalism is comprised of old people nostalgic for the past. It is the young who are attracted--including young clergy who dare not admit the truth for fear of their ordinaries. The bell is tolling.
14 posted on 08/03/2003 5:18:17 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
**Until all those who saw or see Vatican II as a complete break with the Church's past have disappeared from the scene the Council will continue to be misunderstood.**

**In other words, wait for traditionalists to die off.**

I read that sentence very differently. I think its talking about all the liberal abusers (like the crazy theology professors). You know - all the folks who think Vatican II means holding hands at the Our Father and 10 minute hugfests at the sign of peace.
15 posted on 08/03/2003 5:21:17 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: St.Chuck
Is this why this Pope can't find it in himself to discipline apostate bishops?

Dialogue--endless, pointless, going nowhere. It's the Rodney King school of Catholicism--"Can't we all just get along and forget about the deposit of faith?"
16 posted on 08/03/2003 5:21:58 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: NYer
What did Vatican II do for us?

Made the Church a Fun House, full of distorting mirrors. Placed truth on top of quicksand. Gave us the clown Mass. Introduced no-fault confessions.
17 posted on 08/03/2003 5:30:41 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
It's the Rodney King school of Catholicism--"Can't we all just get along and forget about the deposit of faith?"

LOL

18 posted on 08/03/2003 5:31:37 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The progressives as much the sedevacanists think of Vatican II as a revolution. They, of course, are the more dangerous, because the world is on their side.
19 posted on 08/03/2003 5:32:53 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: ultima ratio
**It is the young who are attracted--including young clergy who dare not admit the truth for fear of their ordinaries. The bell is tolling. **

I think many of the kids today are reacting to extremely poor catechesis. The traditionalist movement gives them absolutes they can cling to. The traditionalist movement probably is more popular and better organized than at any time since Vatican II, but I really believe it's a reaction to the rampant abuses.

None of our eight adult children are involved in the traditionalist movement, but then my wife made sure they were well catechized, no matter how ignorant their religion teachers.
20 posted on 08/03/2003 5:33:40 PM PDT by old and tired
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