It’s not your mother’s Catholic Church

Catholic Chronicle ^ | July 4, 2003 | PAT TODAK

[NYer]

  “On more than one occasion I recall having worn toilet paper, Kleenex, a paper towel, and even a waist-long stocking cap when I’d forgotten my chapel cap,” recalls Anne Kwiatkowski of Perrysburg. She remembers fasting before Masses and how her brothers would pack both breakfast and lunch to eat at school after Mass on the days they were serving.
  “I think today’s Catholic Church is much more user-friendly,” says Mrs. Kwiatkowski. “The shortage of priests mandates more involvement from lay people, especially women.” She finds that being more involved makes her want to be at Mass more. And she sees that in her daughters as well. “I don’t know that I’ve ever heard them say, ‘Do we have to go to church today?’ When they were younger they loved the children’s liturgies. Now they enjoy being able to serve — something I wasn’t allowed to do.”
  
  At a recent bridge game, Anne’s mom, Barb Vanderkelen, and some of her friends reflected on the many changes they have witnessed in the church through the years. They remembered 40-Hour Devotions; praying when the Angelus Bells rang at noon and 6; and an endless stream of processions. “It seemed like we wore out our First Communion dresses with all the processions we were in,” says Mrs. Vanderkelen.
  The women also recalled Rogation Day, which was one of the three days of prayer preceding Ascension Day, and Ember Days, which were days reserved for prayer and fasting.
  Mrs. Vanderkelen also remembers her grandparents paying pew rental. “I think it was 25 cents,” she says adding, “They always sat in the same pew.”
  Although Mrs. Vanderkelen believes the Catholic Church is better since Vatican II, she misses some of the processions and other ceremonies that filled the church year. “I think 40-Hours was a nice thing,” she says. “It seems like we’ve cut back on a lot of meaningful services.”
  
  Ann Studer thinks her children miss out by not having sisters teach at their Catholic school. “Our school had Franciscan nuns,” she says. “They were so nice — so kind. I wish my kids could have the opportunity to have nuns for teachers.”
  Mrs. Studer remembers her mom telling how she had to go to confession every Saturday before Mass the next day. As a student at Alter School in Rossford, she and her classmates attended Mass twice during the school week and never missed a Sunday. “It’s too bad, but it seems like less and less time is devoted to church in many families’ schedules today.”
  On the plus side she believes that she and her children have a greater opportunity to learn more about their faith than her mom’s generation did. “My mom said she never studied the Bible in school, but I did and my children do now. It’s more of a two-way street now — learning process rather than just memorization. My kids understand more about what happened in the Bible and why.”
  
  When reflecting on how the church has changed since her mother’s day, Jan Nicholas of Sylvania recalled a conversation she had with her mom shortly before she passed away. “I remember talking with her about how differently people dressed for Mass,” she says. “When I was younger I would not go to church without a dress or skirt on. Today, you see so many jeans.”
  Although Mrs. Nicholas enjoys the relaxed attire, she says she wouldn’t mind going back to the more formal ways of the past, even wearing hats. “I remember how nice it was wearing chapel veils,” she says. Unlike Mrs. Kwiatkowski, Mrs. Nicholas never had to put a Kleenex on her head. “Oh some of my friends did,” she laughed, noting that she frequently carried extra chapel veils in her pocket to loan to friends.
  There are many parts of the Mass that Mrs. Nicholas really enjoys today. “I love the Sign of Peace and holding hands during the Our Father,” she says. “It gives the Mass more meaning for me.”
  
  You would never find Carol Stoll’s mom whistling a happy tune. “My mother told me she was never allowed to whistle because it would make the Blessed Virgin Mary cry.”
  Ms. Stoll recalls that the Fatima experience occurred when her mom was young and made a profound impact on her mom’s life. “It was fairly common for the first-born girl to be named after the Blessed Virgin,” she says. “My mom was the oldest of five. Her name was Anna Maria.”
  “Girls were encouraged to be Mary-like and wear blue,” says Ms. Stoll. “After all, the best girls got chosen to be Mary in the Christmas pageant and to crown the Blessed Virgin Mary (statue) in May.”
  Nuns were a big part of both her and her mom’s church history. “The sisters staffed the Catholic schools and along with parents were the primary teachers of Catholicism,” she recalls. She remembers nuns wearing the signature habit with a large dangling rosary and usually a crucifix. “They lived next to the church in convents, didn’t drive, and seemed to be in abundance,” she says.
  Although her mother attended a public school in Glandorf, Ms. Stoll says that sisters comprised the entire teaching staff.
  She remembers when communion was received from the priest’s hand to your tongue while kneeling at the altar rail. “You never touched the host. Oh, the things that could happen to you if you did!”
  As a young Catholic, Ms. Stoll abstained from meat every Friday and fasted every day of Lent. “We would fast from midnight before receiving Communion. The nuns would often cover the drinking fountains to help in this endeavor.”
  She remembers adult Catholics being encouraged to carry a card with them that said, “In case of an accident, please call a priest.” She also remembers how families were encouraged to have holy water fonts on the wall of each bedroom in the home.
  And, as a youngster, she was frequently reminded that she was always surrounded by both a guardian angel and the devil.
  “I am a product of both pre- and post-Vatican II,” Ms. Stoll says. “Pondering this makes me realize that I have witnessed tremendous changes in the Church over time. I have seen the Church evolve from the serious, less accepting, fire and brimstone institution of my mother’s era to the embracing, forgiving, gentler, more lay-involved and inclusive environment of today. There is no question that I am very happy to be worshipping at this point on the Church’s timeline. I enjoyed hearing about the Church of the past at my mother’s knee, but much prefer worshipping in the Church of the present.
  “Truthfully, I’m certain my mother would too. To live her religion meant to nurture, guide, support, serve, forgive, and love unconditionally. These all describe the Catholic Church today. I’ll bet like her daughter, Mom would enjoy being a current member.”

[NYer]

She remembers adult Catholics being encouraged to carry a card with them that said, “In case of an accident, please call a priest.”

Here in New York, catholics will have to resume this practice. The new Privacy Act, prevents hospitals from asking patients their religious affiliation. It is up to the patient to request a priest.

For those who arrive unconscious, knocking at death's door, they should be equipped with a card with the above words.

[NYer]

“It was fairly common for the first-born girl to be named after the Blessed Virgin,” she says.

At my grandmother's baptism, the priest asked the parents what name they had chosen. They responded Rita Marie. He baptised her Marie Rita.

[Pyro7480]

I think you're inviting a lot of discussion with this article ;-)

[Coleus]

Oh, for the good old days, I wish I was a part of it...>>

Here in New York, catholics will have to resume this practice. The new Privacy Act, prevents hospitals from asking patients their religious affiliation. It is up to the patient to request a priest.

For those who arrive unconscious, knocking at death's door, they should be equipped with a card with the above words.>>>

Great idea, I will write my bishop about it and tell my pastor. A couple of weeks ago, I was standing next to my pastor when a hospital employee came up to him and said, "you know, so and so is in the hospital" he said thanks but he can't do anything unless the family calls and requests him to come.

What happens to the people who have no families in the area? Suppose you are on a trip or at college or anywhere in America on death's door and you need a priest? I'm surprised W supported such a law. Clinton wins again.

[katnip]

In our little neighborhood in Queens, there was a fish store that was only open on Fridays.

They sold raw fish or if you liked, the Italian lady who spoke no english would bread and fry the flounder and give you a bag of fried potatoes with it. Yummm....

[Dusty Rose]

Fish on Friday. We hear a lot nowdays about eating more fish for our health. Perhaps it would be a good idea for many of us to eat fish once a week, for our physical as well as our spiritual health.

[Loyalist]

PING.

Aren't you all happy that we can hold hands at the Our Father and sing Kumbaya?

You aren't?

Then what's wrong with you?

[Sneer]

I think you are right about the many responses that can be made to this post. I would like to make just one. In February of the year 1966, Pope Paul VI promulgated an Apostolic Constitution (17 Feb. 1966) entitled Paenitemini in which he said that the law of the Church still says to abstain from meat on every Friday throughout the year.
However, he gave permission to go against the letter of the law if the conference of bishops of a particular country petitioned the Holy See, the Pope, for permission for their people to do another penance on Friday in place of not eating meat. So, in those countries whose bishops have gone through the channels to petition the Pope for permission to substitute another penance instead of not eating meat on Friday, those individuals in those countries can substitute another penance.
But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

[Thorondir]

Right! After all, we are all copper wires and the prayer itself is an electrical current. That's why we have to do it that way. Otherwise it doesn't work.

Right?

[Loyalist]

I have seen the Church evolve from the serious, less accepting, fire and brimstone institution of my mother’s era to the embracing, forgiving, gentler, more lay-involved and inclusive environment of today. There is no question that I am very happy to be worshipping at this point on the Church’s timeline.

Embracing of evil, forgiving without repentance, gentle with effeminacy and moral flabbiness. If you're happy with it, then you have a lot you shouldn't be happy about.

[Thorondir]

You aren't kidding, my friend, but the libomodernist's eyes are not capable of seeing the truth.

A liberal is someone so open-minded that his brain fell out.

[redhead]

"For those who arrive unconscious, knocking at death's door, they should be equipped with a card with the above words.

In the good old days, anything that could be worn around the neck or carried in a pocket seemed to have "I AM A CATHOLIC. IN CASE OF AN ACCIDENT, PLEASE CALL A PRIEST."

[Litany]

I loved 40 hours procession.

[B Knotts]

The requirement for some kind of abstinence on Fridays year round is actually still in effect. Many people don't realize this.

For simplification, I've simply adopted the old fish on Fridays tradition all year long. And, yes, health-wise, it's a good idea as well.

[Salvation]

**It is up to the patient to request a priest.**

In Oregon this is true also.

[ultima ratio]

This article is so much hogwash. It is not true that children learn more about the faith today. In fact, there is a crisis of catechesis worldwide. It is ridiculous to say devotions were "nicer" back then or are more "user-friendly" than was the preconciliar Church. The test for user-friendliness is whether souls are being saved, not whether things are "nicer". If niceness is the measure, let's all become Quakers, for heaven's sake. The truth is, the Conciliar Church has been awash in a sea of corruption for forty years--and this is a pretty crappy reality and incredibly un-nice. Priests are less, not more, accessible, and they are less, not more, devout, and the sacraments are less, not more, accessible today, and so on down the line with every measure of spiritual well-being. As a result of a cataclysmic ecclesiastical decline, souls are universally in more, not less, danger of being lost, no matter how much bullhockey emanates from Rome these days. The entire article is the sheerest pollyanna-ish propaganda.

[sinkspur]

But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

Mortal sin? If you'll provide a reference, I'll believe you.

[NYer]

They sold raw fish or if you liked, the Italian lady who spoke no english would bread and fry the flounder and give you a bag of fried potatoes with it. Yummm....

Lol!!! I once met an Italian lady who could not pronounce the word "shrimp". It always came out "skrimp". I'll never forget the one Easter when she went to local butch(er) (she always stopped after the butch) and ordered 'baby lamb' for Easter dinner. When she went to pick it up, he handed her a nice young leg of lamb. She handed it back, saying: " This is the great grandfather of the lamb I ordered.".

I also grew up in Queens ... which part of Queens had this fish market?

[NYer]

But what you have not been told, and no one seems to know, is that you still have the obligation to do another penance on that Friday and you are still bound under pain of mortal sin.

An excellent point! And you are absolutely right. This message has been lost to many catholics over the years. Recently, another freeper brought this to our attention. Self-denial is good for the body, while penance works "miracles" on the soul As Dusty Rose noted, "Perhaps it would be a good idea for many of us to eat fish once a week, for our physical as well as our spiritual health."

Ever since Hermann the Cherusker brought this to our attention, I have switched back to meatless Fridays. This can't be right 'cause it actually feels good. Let's get the word out .... Vatican Council II sought a greater participation by the laity. "Start spreading the new!"

[NYer]

This article is so much hogwash.

I was wondering how long it would take before you showed up ... just under 3 hours ... definitely not record setting. Try again?

The truth is, the Conciliar Church has been awash in a sea of corruption for forty years

And the solution is ........ to join the SSPX! Did you ever make your Confirmation? What happened to your participation in the church militant? So many innocent catholics have been led astray. Why are you not fighting alongside of us? Fight or flee! Oh, I forgot .... when challenged, flee. To heck with the other catholics, you need to safeguard your own soul and those of your family.