He's An Only Child -- A response to a Protestant argument against Mary's perpetual virginity

Envoy Magazine ^ | Ronald K. Tacelli, S.J.

[Conservative til I die]

Oh. I forgot to mention. Now that the trinity is disproven,

*snip*

I must have missed this.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Now what am I gonna do? Have you disproven anything else I should know about?

Yes. Apostolic Sucession and Papal Authority.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Who gives a crap what a heretic thinks? Your opinion matters about as much as a Hindu's or a Jain's on the subject.

I'm sorry. You seem upset.

[Alex Murphy]

I'm going to need more popcorn. I hope there's an intermission.

[NYer]

Welcome to Free Republic, Patrick!
We've been expecting you!

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I would close with the following question I'd ask them to ponder before they deny Mary's perpetual virginity: If Joseph was a just man and a faithful Jew, if he believed that the God he worshipped, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God who was present in the Holy of Holies, was present also in Mary's womb as Father of her Child - is it really likely that he would have had relations with his wife once the Child had been born?

Yes, they were married couple, its what happens. (see Google search: the birds and the bees. :)

"until" Oh no not again!

Give me the verse or verses in the bible that tells us about Mary's perpetual virginity OK?

BigMack

[Patrick Madrid]

I can see the fur flying in slow motion.

[NYer]

I'm going to need more popcorn. I hope there's an intermission.

I've got the drinks, may I join you? Don't forget to point the sofa towards the window. We don't want to miss the fireworks. Pope Ron Popeil I should be showing up soon.

[Patrick Madrid]

Actually, I can't, because the Bible nowehere explicity says Mary did not have any children in addition to Christ. In the same way, the Bible nowehere explicitly says she did have other children in addition to Christ.

And to save you some time, the standard "brothers of the Lord" verses (e.g. Matt. 13:55-56) won't prove anything either. They simply show that some men were called "brothers" of the Lord. They don't entail evidence of Mary having additional children.

In sum, the subject of Mary's perpetual virginity cannot be conclusively decided, pro or con, by an appeal to Scripture Alone. But then that subject -- sola scriptura -- is a whole other can of worms for a later time :)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I can see the fur flying in slow motion.

May I know the interpretation?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Pope Ron Popeil I should be showing up soon.

I guess the "Mother of all Harlots" has its daughters as well. :-)

[Patrick Madrid]

Well, what I meant was that "watching" an argument unfold on a website is like watching fur fly in slow motion. It's not "real time," but, I guess, the best best thing.

Are you anti-fur? If so, let me know now so I don't pelt you with arguments.

[Quester]

What child would understand a parent saying, "If you talk back to me you are not going to get a spanking, but if you talk back to me you are going to get a spanking." (DUH?!?!) I think such odd parental instruction, if it became the norm, could result in a somewhat confused child.

OTOH, a child would very well understand his/her mother reprimanding him/her for backtalk, AND telling the child that when his/her father got home, he/she was going to get a spanking.

The child would understand that his/her mother was exercising legitimate authority over him/her, AND that, when his/her father arrived home, that he, too, would exercise legitimate authority over him/her, ... though the two of them ... the mother and the father, would exercise this authority individually and in different ways.

The child would, further, understand that, though the two of them, mother and father, would exercise such authority individually and in different ways, ... that they would, indeed, be exercising such authority in the pursuance of the same goal (i.e. the rearing of a respectful child) ... and in the fulfillment of their joint identity as parent to the child.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Didn't know fur flew.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Actually, I can't, because the Bible nowehere explicity says Mary did not have any children in addition to Christ. In the same way, the Bible nowehere explicitly says she did have other children in addition to Christ.

And to save you some time, the standard "brothers of the Lord" verses (e.g. Matt. 13:55-56) won't prove anything either. They simply show that some men were called "brothers" of the Lord. They don't entail evidence of Mary having additional children.

Maybe not to you, I have several t-shirts on this matter. :)

In sum, the subject of Mary's perpetual virginity cannot be conclusively decided, pro or con, by an appeal to Scripture Alone. But then that subject -- sola scriptura -- is a whole other can of worms for a later time :)

Thats the whole end game, its not possible to come to terms on this subject is it? Its just the same old back and forth as it has been and will always be.

BigMack

[Invincibly Ignorant]

You missed the point.

[Alex Murphy]

I've got the drinks, may I join you? Don't forget to point the sofa towards the window. We don't want to miss the fireworks. Pope Ron Popeil I should be showing up soon.

Ahem - that's Pope Peil I, pocket-fisher of men. He's already granted me a Cardinalship, based upon his adoption of my suggestion for a new baptismal mode (spray-on).

[Pahuanui]

In sum, the subject of Mary's perpetual virginity cannot be conclusively decided, pro or con, by an appeal to Scripture Alone. But then that subject -- sola scriptura -- is a whole other can of worms for a later time :)

Speaking of cans of worms, if you add to the above the statement by Meister Eckhardt, "We are all meant to be mothers of God. For God is always needing to be born.", all sorts of interesting conundrums are there for consideration.

[Ex-Wretch]

Question: Is it RC doctrine that belief of this "perpetual virginity" is necessary for one's salvation? IOW, can one still be forgiven his sins and yet dispute the "perpetual virginity" of Mary?