I also humbly submit that, for the observance of the sacred rite of Holy Baptism, we do not practice immersion, pouring, or sprinkling.
I propose we baptise by spraying....
Posted on 03/30/2003 12:41:35 PM PST by NYer
Yes, but we were not talking about Hindus.
So do the Hindu Jainists. Does that mean they are worshipping the same god? How about the Babylonians who worship Marduk, creator of the earth and sky from the slain body of Tiamat?
This isn't just a theoretical issue, since Allah has more historical ties to Marduk than he does to Judeo-Christianity (before Mohammed came along, there were no connections whatsoever between Allah and the Jewish God).
Who are the Hindu Jainists???
The name "Allah" is used by middle eastern Christians as well. The Moslem Allah has no historical ties to Marduk... can you site the information you have documenting this?
I will state again. The Moslems believe in ONE God who created all. From there they go off the rails.
The number of prophets sent by God is said to have been about 124,000, and of apostles, 315. Of the former, 22 are mentioned by name in the Koran — such as Adam, Noe, Abraham, Moses, Jesus.
According to the Sunni, the Prophets and Apostles were sinless and superior to the angels, and they had the power of performing miracles. Mohammedan angelology and demonology are almost wholly based on later Jewish and early Christian traditions. The angels are believed to be free from all sin; they neither eat nor drink; there is no distinction of sex among them. They are, as a rule, invisible, save to animals, although, at times, they appear in human form. The principal angels are: Gabriel, the guardian and communicator of God's revelation to man; Michael, the guardian of men; Azrail, the angel of death, whose duty is to receive men's souls when they die; and Israfil, the angel of the Resurrection.
In addition to these there are the Seraphim, who surround the throne of God, constantly chanting His praises; the Secretaries, who record the actions of men; the Observers, who spy on every word and deed of mankind; the Travellers, whose duty it is to traverse the whole earth in order to know whether, and when, men utter the name of God; the Angels of the Seven Planets; the Angels who have charge of hell; and a countless multitude of heavenly beings who fill all space. The chief devil is Iblis, who, like his numerous companions, was once the nearest to God, but was cast out for refusing to pay homage to Adam at the command of God. These devils are harmful both to the souls and to the bodies of men, although their evil influence is constantly checked by Divine interference.
Besides angels and devils, there are also jinns, or genii, creatures of fire, able to eat, drink, propagate, and die; some good, others bad, but all capable of future salvation and damnation.
God rewards good and punishes evil deeds. He is merciful and is easily propitiated by repentance. The punishment of the impenitent wicked will be fearful, and the reward of the faithful great. All men will have to rise from the dead and submit to the universal judgment. The Day of Resurrection and of Judgment will be preceded and accompanied by seventeen fearful, or greater, signs in heaven and on earth, and eight lesser ones, some of which are identical with those mentioned in the New Testament. The Resurrection will be general and will extend to all creatures — angels, jinns, men, and brutes. The torments of hell and the pleasures of Paradise, but especially the latter, are proverbially crass and sensual. Hell is divided into seven regions: Jahannam, reserved for faithless Mohammedans; Laza, for the Jews; Al-Hutama, for the Christians; Al-Sair, for the Sabians; Al-Saqar, for the Magians; Al-Jahim, for idolaters; Al-Hawiyat, for hypocrites. As to the torments of hell, it is believed that the damned will dwell amid pestilential winds and in scalding water, and in the shadow of a black smoke. Draughts of boiling water will be forced down their throats. They will be dragged by the scalp, flung into the fire, wrapped in garments of flame, and beaten with iron maces. When their skins are well burned, other skins will be given them for their greater torture. While the damnation of all infidels will be hopeless and eternal, the Moslems, who, though holding the true religion, have been guilty of heinous sins, will be delivered from hell after expiating their crimes.
The joys and glories of Paradise are as fantastic and sensual as the lascivious Arabian mind could possibly imagine. "As plenty of water is one of the greatest additions to the delights of the Bedouin Arab, the Koran often speaks of the rivers of Paradise as a principal ornament thereof; some of these streams flow with water, some with wine and others with honey, besides many other lesser springs and fountains, whose pebbles are rubies and emeralds, while their earth consists of camphor, their beds of musk, and their sides of saffron. But all these glories will be eclipsed by the resplendent and ravishing girls, or houris, of Paradise, the enjoyment of whose company will be the principal felicity ofthe faithful. These maidens are created not of clay, as in the case of mortal women, but of pure musk, and free from all natural impurities, defects, and inconveniences. They will be beautiful and modest and secluded from public view in pavilions of hollow pearls. The pleasures of Paradise will be so overwhelming that God will give to everyone the potentialities of a hundred individuals. To each individuals a large mansion will be assigned, and the very meanest will have at his disposal at least 80,000 servants and seventy-two wives of the girls of Paradise. While eating they will be waited on by 300 attendants, the food being served in dishes of gold, whereof 300 shall be set before him at once, containing each a different kind of food, and an inexhaustible supply of wine and liquors. The magnificence of the garments and gems is conformable to the delicacy of their diet. For they will be clothed in the richest silks and brocades, and adorned with bracelets of gold and silver, and crowns set with pearls, and will make use of silken carpets, couches, pillows, etc., and in order that they may enjoy all these pleasures, God will grant them perpetual youth, beauty, and vigour. Music and singing will also be ravishing and everlasting" (Wollaston, "Muhammed, His Life and Doctrines").
The Mohammedan doctrine of predestination is equivalent to fatalism. They believe in God's absolute decree and predetermination both of good and of evil; viz., whatever has been or shall be in the world, whether good or bad, proceeds entirely from the Divine will, and is irrevocably fixed and recorded from all eternity. The possession and the exercise of our own free will is, accordingly, futile and useless. The absurdity of this doctrine was felt by later Mohammedan theologians, who sought in vain by various subtile distinctions to minimize it.
Sorry, there was supposed to be a "/" there. There are Hindus who worship only one god (they see all others as just symbolic aspects of one true god), and the Jainist philosophy is a form of monotheism.
The name "Allah" is used by middle eastern Christians as well
That's true, but they do so incorrectly. "God" would properly be translated into Arabic as "Ilah", not "Allah" (the latter being the proper name for a particular deity, translating it as "allah" is as serious a mistake as translating it as "Jupiter" in latin). The use of "Allah" by arab Christians is a symptom of Islamic domination of the region, nothing more, and that name was not used before Islam came along.
The Moslem Allah has no historical ties to Marduk...
That depends on how you define "Moslem Allah". Allah pre-dates Islam, as the name of a member of a pantheon of deities. From an archeological standpoint, its history can be traced back to the sumerian Enlil (and thus the connection to Marduk, the actual progression being Enlil, Be'IL, Al ILAH, Il-hallabu, and finally Allah).
I will state again. The Moslems believe in ONE God who created all
So what about a satanists who believes that Satan was really the creator (and the Jewish god a pretender to the throne)? Is she actually worshipping the God she thinks is a false god? Does the act of worshipping a monotheistic god Make that god the true God?
The doctrines of Islam concerning God — His unity and Divine attributes — are essentially those of the Bible
The Catholic Encyclopedia is misleading (i.e., wrong) on this point.
I also humbly submit that, for the observance of the sacred rite of Holy Baptism, we do not practice immersion, pouring, or sprinkling.
I propose we baptise by spraying....
The Jainist, like the Buddhist and the pantheistic Brahmin, takes for granted the doctrine of Karma and its implied rebirths. He, too, views every form of earthly, bodily existence as misery. Freedom from rebirth is thus the goal after which he aspires. But, while the pantheistic Brahmin and the primitive Buddhist looked for the realization of the end in the extinction of conscious, individual existence (absorption in Brahma, Nirvana), the Jainist has always tenaciously held to the primitive traditional belief in a final abode of bliss, where the soul, liberated from the necessity of rebirth on earth, enjoys forever a spiritual, conscious existence. To attain this end, the Jainist, like the Buddhist and the pantheistic Brahmin, holds that the traditional gods can aid but little. The existence of the gods is not denied, but their worship is held to be of no avail and is thus abandoned. Salvation is to be obtained by personal effort alone.
I can't imagine how you can link Jainism and Islam. I see no parallels here.
"God" would properly be translated into Arabic as "Ilah", not "Allah" (the latter being the proper name for a particular deity, translating it as "allah" is as serious a mistake as translating it as "Jupiter" in latin). The use of "Allah" by arab Christians is a symptom of Islamic domination of the region, nothing more, and that name was not used before Islam came along.
Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah". "Allah" means "God" in Arabic. Does that mean that God does not hear them because they have His name wrong (according to you)? And the name "Allah" has been found in archealogical digs as the name of the One Creator long before Islam existed.
So what about a satanists who believes that Satan was really the creator (and the Jewish god a pretender to the throne)? Is she actually worshipping the God she thinks is a false god? Does the act of worshipping a monotheistic god Make that god the true God?
What?!? I have no idea how this statement fits into our discussion.
OK. Here is the bottom line for me. Muslims have a mistaken notion about the characteristics of God. But so do a lot of other religions. Does God not hear their prayers because their beliefs about Him are wrong?
Are you possibly asking something else? Let's slightly re-word that sentence for the sake of clarity: "Does God not answer their prayers because their beliefs about Him are wrong?"
"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
Did he do it again? :)
Hey 4 years after the fact, you guys spin machine is running behind. :)
BigMack
really? It is my opinion that anyone that knows the God of Abraham and Jesus knows better than to think all gods are created equal..What do you thing God was talking about in the first commandment? Would you deny God to protect your pope?
So do the Mormons..They believe the one god of THIS world organized this eartth are they correct too?
Believe what you like. I have no idea why you care what I think or what anyone besides a Calvinist thinks since we are not the elect ones.
If, as St. Paul says, Christ who knew no sin was made sin for us, can there be any sin he did not bear there on the cross?
Why do you care what they think? They aren't the elect anyway. And I'd rather a Mormon tell me what Mormonism believes... I've seen how you mangle and misunderstand Catholicism at least a couple of times.
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Those martyers will find their virgins in Hell
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