Wrong gender!
I'm
Cardinal 007 Pierce Starwind (licensed to exorcise). Vatican Spokesmodel is my cover.
Posted on 03/30/2003 12:41:35 PM PST by NYer
By Stephen Hand
Back in 1999, on the 14th of May, according to the Patriarch of the Chaldeans, at the end of an audience between the Pope and some delegates of the Islamic Shiite and Sunni factions, the Pope bowed as “a sign of respect” toward a copy of the Koran which was presented to him as a gift. When the book was officially “presented to him,” the Pope, perhaps a bit perplexed concerning the appropriate protocol for such an official gesture, kissed it; again, as a “sign of respect toward the 34 million followers of Islam”. The event was reported by the Fides news service. It turned out to be more controversial a sign than the Pope and Vatican ever expected, since both Neomodernist and Integrist reactionaries pounced on it. The former to suggest that all religions were essentially one, and the latter to suggest that the Pope had, well, er, left the Faith.
Both, of course, were utterly wrong, and both---who are temperamentally and psychologically joined at the hip in not a few ways---refused to look long at the Church’s actual teachings, the texts which clearly explain what the Church’s attitude toward other religions is-----and is not.
It is the reaction of the latter which concerns us here.
Every religion, sadly, has its Pharisees, the ones who are more royal than the king, the (only) “true” believers. It is an attitude, a psychological type, which comes in degrees of severity and is tied up with legalism, a preference for the letter as opposed to the spirit of the law. What the Taliban is to Islam, Integrism approximately is to Catholicism.
Pharisees, thinking themselves the only true observers of the law, love to debate, to bait and trap the unwary victim, as they tried to do with our Lord on many an occasion. This attitude finds its logical completion in the Essenes who broke off entirely from the Temple (unlike Jesus, His Mother and St. Joseph) and fled to the desert proclaiming themselves the true temple, the remnant of Israel. They are, it is obvious, seldom aware of the pride which feeds such behavior or the logs in their own eyes.
In Catholicism, if the Neo-modernists are the Saducees, i.e., the rationalists who tend to doubt articles of Faith, then the Integrists are very clearly our modern Pharisees, the ones who fancy themselves the true interpreters of the “fathers” and of the letter of the law.
The Pharisee wants an easy, hyper-logical world, a world of airtight Yes-No compartments, where people are either “in” or “out”. In Our Lord’s day they considered Jesus lax with sinners and heathen, dubious in doctrine, fickle regarding the inviolable law. They viewed him with suspicion and ultimately felt he had to be removed altogether. They preferred a religion where the question of the "spirit," or the heart of the law----the ultimate telos / goal to which the law tends----was not welcome, despite the warnings of the major and minor prophets. For the Pharisee it is easy: The woman sinned against her husband? Stone her. The Pope kissed the Koran? Throw him out, follow the law. Such is the spirit of the Pharisee, then and now.
The Pharisee is more comfortable with executing judgment than mercy which is considered a complicating factor. He prefers a simple world where one always knows what to do. That makes debating easier; and our modern Pharisee loves to debate. He wakes up in the morning and aims straightway for the computer to either engage the debate or aid his fellows in it. His religion often exists in chat rooms or on email lists where he seeks to draw the first blood. Mercy is like an ‘X’ in the equation of justice and makes the Pharisee uncomfortable. Just the same with love and the kind of religion as described in Isaiah 58 or Matt 5-7. Such concepts complicate their neat rule book (though most of these guys have never been trained in Catholic theology and hermeneutics).
The Pope Kissed the Koran
The Pope kissed the Koran. Our new version Pharisee immediately salivates. He is ready to pounce and add such an indictable emblem to his files. And what does it prove? That the Pope is a secret Muslim maybe? That the Pope doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ maybe? That the Pope is a relativist, perhaps? A syncretist for sure? That all religions are one in the Pope’s mind? The Pope also kisses the ground upon landing in various countries on pastoral visits. A secret pantheist?
The Pope, of course, teaches the very opposite everywhere. The facts are well known, if one would take the time to learn. Yet the Pharisee has a penchant for turning ones eyes from anything that will reveal his opinion to be an absurdity. Even authoritative texts matter little if they can be simply brushed under the rug of bigotry.
Yet facts are stubborn. The gesture of the Pope by no means indicates syncretism, relativism, or anything of the sort. Cynical Integrists simply seek to make hay of it, as they do of everything else. It is the way of the Pharisee. That way they sell their papers to the gullible. They would rather not believe that the kiss was merely a gesture, as one would bow before a king, or a President, or even kiss the Pope’s ring. They would rather put the worst and most absurd construction on it, like with everything else. Had they been there they would have sent the Three Wise Men---heathens---packing; the Roman Centurion whom our Lord helped too (pagan). And the good Samaritan would have been viewed very simply as a dismal heretic. I know rigroist Feeneyites who must first baptise (in their minds) the good thief on the Cross before they will concur with our Lord's pronouncement concerning him. Legalism...
I adduce the following texts, from innumerable others, not for debate, but to show those confused by them that the Pope’s teaching is nothing like the accusations and framing of the Integrists.
For the Holy Father, dialogue does not substitute for evangelism/mission, but is a part of that mission of evangelism, divorced from neither love nor truth.
The emphasis is mine throughout below.
NOSTRA AETATE
2. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense. Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
55. Inter-religious dialogue is a part of the Church's evangelizing mission. Understood as a method and means of mutual knowledge and enrichment, dialogue is not in opposition to the mission ad gentes; indeed, it has special links with that mission and is one of its expressions . This mission, in fact, is addressed to those who do not know Christ and his Gospel, and who belong for the most part to other religions. In Christ, God calls all peoples to himself and he wishes to share with them the fullness of his revelation and love. He does not fail to make himself present in many ways, not only to individuals but also to entire peoples through their spiritual riches, of which their religions are the main and essential expression, even when they contain "gaps, insufficiencies and errors."(98) All of this has been given ample emphasis by the Council and the subsequent Magisterium, without detracting in any way from the fact that salvation comes from Christ and that dialogue does not dispense from evangelization.(99)
In the light of the economy of salvation, the Church sees no conflict between proclaiming Christ and engaging in interreligious dialogue. Instead, she feels the need to link the two in the context of her mission ad gentes . These two elements must maintain both their intimate connection and their distinctiveness ; therefore they should not be confused, manipulated or regarded as identical, as though they were interchangeable
CDF’s Dominus Iesus: See CDF document here
4. The Church's constant missionary proclamation is endangered today by relativistic theories which seek to justify religious pluralism, not only de facto but also de iure (or in principle). As a consequence, it is held that certain truths have been superseded; for example, the definitive and complete character of the revelation of Jesus Christ, the nature of Christian faith as compared with that of belief in other religions, the inspired nature of the books of Sacred Scripture, the personal unity between the Eternal Word and Jesus of Nazareth, the unity of the economy of the Incarnate Word and the Holy Spirit, the unicity and salvific universality of the mystery of Jesus Christ, the universal salvific mediation of the Church, the inseparability — while recognizing the distinction — of the kingdom of God, the kingdom of Christ, and the Church, and the subsistence of the one Church of Christ in the Catholic Church.
6. Therefore, the theory of the limited, incomplete, or imperfect character of the revelation of Jesus Christ, which would be complementary to that found in other religions, is contrary to the Church's faith. Such a position would claim to be based on the notion that the truth about God cannot be grasped and manifested in its globality and completeness by any historical religion, neither by Christianity nor by Jesus Christ.
7. ...Thus, theological faith (the acceptance of the truth revealed by the One and Triune God) is often identified with belief in other religions, which is religious experience still in search of the absolute truth and still lacking assent to God who reveals himself. This is one of the reasons why the differences between Christianity and the other religions tend to be reduced at times to the point of disappearance.
Most critical to our concern:
8. The hypothesis of the inspired value of the sacred writings of other religions is also put forward. Certainly, it must be recognized that there are some elements in these texts which may be de facto instruments by which countless people throughout the centuries have been and still are able today to nourish and maintain their life-relationship with God. Thus, as noted above, the Second Vatican Council, in considering the customs, precepts, and teachings of the other religions, teaches that “although differing in many ways from her own teaching, these nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men”.23
The Church's tradition, however, reserves the designation of inspired texts to the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments, since these are inspired by the Holy Spirit.24 Taking up this tradition, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation of the Second Vatican Council states: “For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (cf. Jn 20:31; 2 Tim 3:16; 2 Pet 1:19-21; 3:15-16), they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself”.25 These books “firmly, faithfully, and without error, teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures”.26
Nevertheless, God, who desires to call all peoples to himself in Christ and to communicate to them the fullness of his revelation and love, “does not fail to make himself present in many ways, not only to individuals, but also to entire peoples through their spiritual riches, of which their religions are the main and essential expression even when they contain ‘gaps, insufficiencies and errors'”.27 Therefore, the sacred books of other religions, which in actual fact direct and nourish the existence of their followers, receive from the mystery of Christ the elements of goodness and grace which they contain.
It is very clear, then, that neither the Pope nor Vatican II promotes doctrinal relativism, much less syncretism. This is why the neo-modernists consider the Pope a veritable inquisition. They can read. Yet the joyless Integrist can be counted on to always put the worst possible construction on any event or text (even if they usually prefer to simply ignore than compare texts). Thus they alleviate some of their anxiety for airtight security, even if it means fleeing from the vulnerability and suffering of the cross in our time. The Integrist is never so gleeful as when in [the diversion of] debate. Those of us who have known them intimately consider this one of their most striking and constant characteristics. To debate them is to feed their pride. Better to sincerely pray for them often. It is tragic beyond words when truth itself is inconsequential to the act of debating.
The Church, then, rejects nothing which is good, true or holy in other religions, but condemns all syncretistic theology as it did with Frs. Anthony de Mello's and Tissa Balasuriya's writings; see also the CDF's warnings to the bishops of India regarding syncretism and erroneous christologies; also its warnings about eastern meditation, etc.
Hand is unscrupulous. I thought that he might come back from his self-imposed layoff with a humbler and less contentious spirit. This article has dashed my hopes.
I can see where you're coming from and what you're trying to say. But I think it is not correct that "there is some truth in every monotheistic religion."
For example, what if I were to say, "There is only 1 God. His name is Maximilian. All must bow down and worship Maximilian. I am, by the way, all powerful despite the unassuming form I have chosen to inhabit, and I shall exterminate all who refuse to worship the great and powerful Maximilian."
I would be a monotheist, but there would be precious little truth in my religion. One could view Islam in the same way. They worship 1 God, Allah. But their religion is nothing but a tissue of lies inspired by demons.
Even were their religion true, it would not be the same God as our God, it would only mean that our religion is false. We believe in a Trinity. This is the very essence of our religion. They consider that blasphemy.
Would that be the Pope Peil, pocket fishers of men?
So when did Catholics start worshipping idols made from black meteorites?
Seriously, anybody that would compare Allah and Yahweh and think they are the same Entity is about as clueless as someone who would compare Bill Clinton and George Bush and think they are the same person. Just because they share the same title of "God" or "President" doesn't make them the same. The fact is that the nature of the Hebrew and Christian God can be found in the bible as easily as the nature of the Islamic God can be found in the Quran, and those natures are fundamentally incompatible.
I know who Allah is. I know its history (which, contrary to the claims of the muslims, long predates Islam). Allah is not the creator, and if Allah is another name for the god you worship, you are not worshipping the Creator.
Well, in the Kaaba where Allah is worshipped, there used to be 360 of them (Allah was the tribal deity of Mohammed's family, and Mohammed's task was the daily care of what is now the "black stone"). Of course, none of those gods were the True God, any more than Allah was.
Have you guys read the Koran?
If you had, you would know that it is not possible for a devout muslim to have a christian or a jew as a friend. You would see the hatred "Allah" has for people that the REAL God loves as his chosen people, and you would know that Allah is not really God, but just a pretender like so many others to that Throne.
(from back of room frantically waving) Oh! Pick me! Pick me!
But (pouting) I want gold robes, with little red fringes, and a red beret.
Ummm, let me see, let me see, (tugs at ear)....Ah Hah! the 4th secret of Lucy can now be revealed, that I'm to be the Vatican Spokesmodel!
Yeaahh, Vatican Spokesmodel, has a nice ring to it....it does come with a ring, right?
Wrong gender!
I'm
Cardinal 007 Pierce Starwind (licensed to exorcise). Vatican Spokesmodel is my cover.
Religion should not be used as a basis for war. We can tolerate and respect other's religion, while we disagree. If we wish others to listen to us we must be willing to listen to them.
This goes for Christianity and for Islam.
One true god and many false idols. The Hindus worship many gods ---none are the true god.
I've read that he was ---I think we only saw this Pope for what he was for only a few years and then he was shot down. His injuries were very serious ---life-threatening, he's had several operations since. I think his life has been filled with pain and most likely pain killers. Plus there is the age factor ---Reagan himself is not what he used to be. It's possible there are others in the Vatican who are taking advantage of the Pope's medical conditions.
On the matter of the current problems in the U.S. Church, it is understandable that some hoping for an orthodox revival might get frustrated with what may seem at times like less than confident signs in Rome that sufficient attention has been addressed to dealing with the vandals and pranksters who seem to be running (and ruining) things in America. One can probably question the kissing of the Koran without falling into pope "bashing." Personally, I don't think any Catholic or bishop should kiss the Koran or any other Muslim book. There are intelligent ways to debate the impact of Islam on human civilization, whether Mohammed was possessed, a charlatan, or merely another homicidal psycho from a non-Western culture. Or whether "kissing" is the appropriate way to show respect for non-Christian symbols.
Debating the personality cult of John Paul II or the effectiveness of his papacy is certainly a valid topic for discussion. But the Church is always more complicated than just the papacy or the bureaucratic manuevers in Rome. If one accepts the idea that John Paul II has been a positive hero of orthodoxy, we still have plenty of problems in the U.S. Church which seem immune to his vision of the Christian restoration of culture and civilization. Whether a differently-styled papacy would have addressed the problems of the U.S. Church, of its outrageous and absurd neo-modernism, minimalism, wreckovation, grotesque sodomy scandals, etc., that may certainly be something that will continue to fascinate the current pope's critics. Had I been Pope, God forbid, I would have publicly requested, say, Weakland's early retirement a lot sooner. Some of these debates can be useful at refocusing on what really constitutes genuine orthodoxy and genuine renewal of the Church - as the Catholic posts on FR often indicate. How to deal with the dilemmas facing Christians and others of the civilized minority in Islamic countries will remain a matter of concern for the Church for many years to come. Let's hope more Muslims choose to kiss the New Testament instead of bombs and jet fuel.
So do the Jews.
Allah is not Yahweh. Muhammed was talking to a fallen angel in the cave when he received his revelations.
Replying to your post as it is the last in a couple of responses to me.
You are taking this topic further than I did. I did not address anything about Islam other than they worship ONE God, the Creator of everything.
Do they have a poor understanding of the One God? Yes.
OMO, Muhammed was either a nut or a charlatan. His understanding of the One God was an amalgamation of him poorly and incorrectly understanding Jewish and Christian teachings. In fact, I would posit Islam as a heresy.
Muhammed believed that One God created everything. Almost everything he believed after that was off the rails.
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