Lucifer

Bible Versions Your Questions Answered ^ | 2002 | David W Daniels

[Commander8]

QUESTION: Should the Bible say "Lucifer" or "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan?

[drstevej]

Brown Driver & Briggs Lexicon (BDB)

l"ly"h n.m. appell. shining one, epith. of king of Babylon.

Actually shining one would be best translation since it is not interpretative. Both morning star and Lucifer are interpretative in that they give a meaning beyond the literal sense of the term. I don't disagree with the KJV interpretation of the Hebrew term, but it is an interpretation none the less.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Revelation 22:16 "It is I, Jesus, who have sent my angel to give you this testimony about the churches. I am the Root and Offspring of David, the Morning Star shining bright."

The Morning Star is the Virgin Mary.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Steve is right, BTW. Both terms have meaning beyond the literal.

[maestro]

1st John 1:5
St. John 1: 14-18
St. John 12: 42-46
St. John 8: 12

St. John 9:5

St. John 14:6

1st. John 1: 6-7
Colossians 1: 12-14

Amen,.........More Grace and Mercy,.........In Jesus' Precious Name, Amen!!!

Maranatha (LIGHT) Truth!

[RnMomof7]

Do you have a scripture on that ?


Is God going to give Mary as a reward?

 
  Rev 2:25   But that which ye have [already] hold fast till I come.
  
  Rev 2:26   And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
  
  Rev 2:27   And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
  
  Rev 2:28   And I will give him the morning star.

[maestro]

ping!

[maestro]

Thanks for the 'site'.

Excerpted - click for full article ^ Source: http://www.chick.com/ask/articles/lucifer.asp

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I just gave you the Scripture quote in #3. Jesus said He was of the lineage of David, specifically the Morning Star. He is speaking literally here. He is telling us who He is. He is Mary's Son. Mary is of the line of David (as was Joseph, but he has no physical relation to Jesus).

As I also said, the meaning goes beyond the literal. The Morning Star is a symbol of many virtues. It can represent graces that God will bestow directly on the soul or the graces God has given Mary to bestow on those who honor her.

Your Mary hate clouds your judgement sometimes Mom.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[fortheDeclaration]

Your Mary hate clouds your judgement sometimes Mom

And your Mary worship clouds yours (Jer.44)

While he yet talked to the people, behold his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak to him, but he answered and said, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hands toward his disciples and said 'behold my mother and my brethren' for whosoever shall do the will of my Fahter which is in heaven is my brother and sister and mother. (Matt.12:48-50)

That is someway to treat the 'queen of heaven' isn't it? The Lord did not even acknowledge her as His mother!

In fact, throughout the entire Gospels He never even addresses her once as mother! He addresses her as woman!

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I don't worship Mary.

You are applying 21st century cultural standards, linguistics and your personal opinion to a Biblical passage and coming up with "Jesus didn't respect his mother enough to call her Mother".

Try again.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Pop Quiz: Who is the woman in Revelation 12?

[fortheDeclaration]

Who is the woman in Revelation 12?

Israel.

Who is the 'woman' of Rev.17?

[fortheDeclaration]

I don't worship Mary.

Oh, thats right praying to someone isn't the same as worshipping them! So when you pray on your rosary' holy Mary, mother of God, giving her the title of God 'holy',(Ps.105:3) you are not praying to her?

Lets see, you believe Mary was born from an Immaculate Conception, (thus, was sinless like Christ,despite the fact that she had to offer a sin offering for herself (Lk.2:24), and rose again and was ascended bodily into heaven like Christ.

And she was offically deemed the 'queen' of heaven was she not by the Papacy in the 19th century?

You are applying 21st century cultural standards, linguistics and your personal opinion to a Biblical passage and coming up with "Jesus didn't respect his mother enough to call her Mother".

Well, where in the scriptures did he ever do so?

He called her 'woman'.

Christ loved and respected Mary as his mother, but that was all she was, his mother, someone who was blessed by God to give birth to the saviour.

It is Christ not Mary that is the issue.

Try again.

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying we shall surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her....(Jer.44:25)

[fortheDeclaration]

Actually shining one would be best translation since it is not interpretative. Both morning star and Lucifer are interpretative in that they give a meaning beyond the literal sense of the term. I don't disagree with the KJV interpretation of the Hebrew term, but it is an interpretation none the less.

Shining one would be the literal interpetation, but not necessary the best one.

Now, the real issue is why has a word that has been in our Bibles for some 500years been changed (every Bible before the 1611 had that word)

The onus is on those who change it to prove that their change is justified and indeed better.

Had they gone the 'literal route' a case may be made that they were trying to be literal (although the NIV is very much dominated by 'dynamic equivalant's).

However, to stick in a translation that causes confusion and does not clarify the passage is very much suspect.

Here is a quoted from David Hunt's work, The seduction of Christianity.

Hunt is not a King James defender.

Take the recently popular movie 2010 for example. In the film, a new sun suddenly appeared in the sky and brought peace to earth just as the American and Soviets were about to engage in nuclear war. What the film did not explain, Arthur C. Clarke did in his book; the sun was named Lucifer, no doubt inhonor of the power that brought it into existance. Sprangler further explains the relationship of Anti-Christ to Lucifer and why Lucifer will be worshipped,

Christ is the same force as Lucifer....Lucifer perpares man for the experience of Christhood...(he is) the great initiator....Lucifer works within each of us to bring us to wholeness and as we move into the new age...each of us in some way is brought to that point which I term the Luciferic initiation.... that many people now, and in the days ahead will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age (P.60 )

The name 'Lucifer' has to be first disassociated from Isa.14 and Satans fall, then switched to 'morning star' to confuse him with the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Dajjal]

"Sirius is very important."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
Cosmic Trigger : Final Secret of the Illuminati

[xzins]

I think we should literally translate all the proper names in the bible. :>)

then we can have a field day with allegorical interpretations

[drstevej]

***The onus is on those who change it to prove that their change is justified and indeed better. ***

[1] I explained why shinig one is better, reread my reply.
[2] The Hebrew text of Isaiah has been around for almost 6 times as long as the King James.

***However, to stick in a translation that causes confusion and does not clarify the passage is very much suspect. ***

How does following the Hebrew cause confusion? How can you complain about 'dynamic equivalences' in the NIV and here defend an interprtative translation? Inconsistent. You admit that shining one is the literal interpretation.

***Here is a quoted from David Hunt's work, The seduction of Christianity. ***
I am very familiar with Dave Hunt, David Spangler and the New Age Movement. I have lectured often on the dangers of the New Age many times myself over the past twenty years. But all of this is beside the point under discussion. The Hebrew text uses a word that means shining one. Why am I a promoter of the New Age for simply following the Hebrew text? Makes no sense.

Now, ftD I agree that Isaiah 14 is a reference to Lucifer. I preach and teach that, but in doing so I am engaging in interpretation -- accurate interpretation -- yet interpretation.

Your elevation of an English translation (albeit a good translation which has been in use many years) over the original languages that the Bible was given is a much larger issue. The onus is on you to explain why the Greek and Hebrew are inferior to the King James!

[RnMomof7]

I just gave you the Scripture quote in #3. Jesus said He was of the lineage of David, specifically the Morning Star. He is speaking literally here. He is telling us who He is. He is Mary's Son. Mary is of the line of David (as was Joseph, but he has no physical relation to Jesus).

As I also said, the meaning goes beyond the literal. The Morning Star is a symbol of many virtues. It can represent graces that God will bestow directly on the soul or the graces God has given Mary to bestow on those who honor her.

And I gave you an earlier scripture where the promise is made to give you the morning star if you persevere

Rev 2:28   And I will give him the morning star.

So I asked a logical question..IF the morning star in scripture is Mary then how can God give her to you?

It is clear from this quote that Jesus is the Bright and Morning star

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star

I do not "hate " Mary ..my daughters both carry her name..BUT I do not replace Jesus with her..or confuse her with Jesus

Protestants ask scriptural proof..you do not have it here ..sorry