Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
VENTURA, Calif. -- Pollster George Barna, known these days as the bearer of bad tidings about the state of Christianity in America, arrived in his office a few minutes late for a 10 a.m. appointment.
His hair was ruffled; his eyes puffy. Shoulders slouched. Being the George Gallup of the conservative evangelical world is a heavy burden for Barna, who often works into the early morning, deciphering numbers generated by his surveys to find church trends.
The 48-year-old author of 30 books, who describes himself as a raging introvert, is a popular national speaker. And he produces enough in-your-face statistics and blunt talk to irritate pastors, cost him business and earn a reputation for having, as one magazine put it, "the gift of discouragement."
His data undercut some of the core beliefs that should, by definition, set evangelicals apart from their more liberal brethren. Findings of his polls show, for example, that:
• The divorce rate is no different for born-again Christians than for those who do not consider themselves religious.
• Only a minority of born-again adults (44 percent) and a tiny proportion of born-again teenagers (9 percent) are certain that absolute moral truth exists.
• Most Christians' votes are influenced more by economic self-interest than by spiritual and moral values.
• Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks sixth among the 21 life goals tested among born-agains, trailing such desires as "living a comfortable lifestyle."
'Are people's lives being transformed" by Christianity? Barna has asked. "We can't find evidence of a transformation."
Even Barna's toughest critics concede that Barna Research Group's polls carry considerable weight because of his first-rate surveying techniques and his 17-year-long record of tracking church and cultural trends.
His work has been used by major companies (Ford Motor Co. and Walt Disney, for example) and religious organizations such as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and World Vision.
"He is the accepted authority on church trends," said Bob Cavin, director of the Texas Baptist Leadership Center. "He gives pastors insight, not only into the effectiveness of the church, but with trends in society that help the pastors with their strategic planning."
Because of his influence, many are watching with interest as Barna branches out from his usual business. He has been preoccupied with quantifying contemporary Christian beliefs, attitudes and practices; comparing them with biblical truths; and delivering the results to pastors, Christian leaders and laity. He said that he once hoped his analyses would be used as building blocks for more relevant churches.
But he decided this year to take a more active role by helping to identify and develop new and better church leaders who will boldly go where their predecessors haven't gone before: to radically revamp the church. He said he believes the process will take decades -- generations -- to complete.
"One of our challenges is to revisit the structures and means through which people experience Christ," Barna said. "People have been talking about developing the 'new church' for the past several decades, but nothing new has been forthcoming."
According to Barna, pastors are great teachers, but not necessarily adept at leadership. To back up his claim, he cited one of his own polls: It showed that only 12 percent of senior pastors say they have the spiritual gift of leadership and 8 percent say they have the gift of evangelism. In contrast, two-thirds say they have the gift of teaching or preaching.
"We, not God, have created a system that doesn't work and that we're reluctant to change."
Barna also is in the early stages of establishing a genuine and appealing Christian presence in secular entities: film, music, media and politics. He has identified these as the institutions that hold the most influence over Americans.
What's needed are "skilled professionals who love Christ and model his ways through their thoughts, words and behavior in enviable and biblically consistent ways," he said.
For Barna, the need for better leadership and better Christian role models in the secular world was underscored by a poll he released this month.
9/11 opportunity lost
The survey showed that the Sept. 11 attacks had virtually no lasting effects on America's faith, despite a 20 percent rise in church attendance during the first few weeks afterward.
"We missed a huge opportunity," he said, adding that, because of their own shallow faith, church regulars needed so much reassurance themselves that they couldn't minister to newcomers.
This kind of comment bothers evangelical Christians.
Mike Regele, author of "The Death of the Church," is one of many who believe the Barna Research Group's statistical work is excellent, but the conclusions drawn by the company's founder are too harsh.
The hypocrisy of Christians, Regele said, "has been a part of the church, probably since the day of Pentecost" and doesn't indicate its collapse.
"It sounds like he's very, very angry at the church," said Regele, a church critic himself who is ultimately an optimist. "There are reasons to be disappointed, but scripture never said we'd be perfect. We shouldn't view the whole institution as a failure."
With each new Barna poll or book, the attacks begin again: He's too negative; he has it in for pastors; he's arrogant.
The criticism "would affect any human being," said Barna, a husband and father of two. "We all want to be loved and accepted by others, but we also have a higher calling to which we each must be true."
Barna said he has learned painfully that giving advice on how to revitalize churches in America is a hugely complex proposition that doesn't fit well into sound bites. He has learned to be more guarded.
Although his statistics often show self-described Christians living lives no different from those of atheists, Barna's faith never has wavered.
"The issue isn't whether Jesus or Christianity is real," he said. "The issue is, are Americans willing to put Christ first in their lives?
But... only with Joseph Smith's approval.
That was a concise and excellent explanation. Thanks Mom!
Reform doctrine says man is spiritually dead because of the fall...that means he must be Born again( regenerated )before he can desire to be saved.
Would the doctrine then be that only certain people are predestined to be "born again" and thus to desire being saved? This sounds very foreign to me; I'm more familiar with the "order of salvation" teaching as held by Mack and Becky.
As for myself, I'm even farther away from your position than Mack and Becky are, because I do not accept a doctrine of original sin.
Or........
Do you have a man REALLY called of God as your pastor, that is a strong leader, and has not buried the gospel with all kinds of extraneous stuff?
I was thinking about taking one of those new 2003 Volkswagon Schadenfreudes for a test drive. ;o)
So no one will go to hell because Christ died for all men? All the muslims and the athesists ? OR
NO one was saved at the cross...it was possible that NO ONE would have choosen Christ therefore He would have died for no one.
I don't know, Dave. Everyone else, from the Orthodox to the Protestants, seems to think you are wrong. ;o)
I never said they weren't. I think we all got off track on my original point.
The article was talking about the watering down of the word to get people to come to chruch. I said it was sad that the preacher had to remind people that at CHURCH YOUTH ACTIVITIES a short devontional that INCLUDED the plan of salvation should be given.
I now think it is just as sad that alot of people on here started in about NO, NO, NO, let the kids have fun. For heaven sakes, WHY do people think that if you talk about God, (and I don't mean just in a prayer) these kids won't have fun. This attitude says alot about peoples seriousness about God, and their love of their neighbors.
Becky
I said we believe "man is dead."
Those are not the same. Did I write something different in the original post?
Not a stupid question; in fact, it is a very good question.
I don't know why you can't just answer plainly.
Do you mean the "thy will be done" thing or this:
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Is it safe to say that you never petition God to change and only for those things that are already in His plan?
That prayer is basically an act of reconciling our desires to God's plan and not an act of asking God for what we piously desire?
SD
He provided the way. We have a choice.
Um, if God predestined everybody, then what choice do we have?
Maybe so, but I've got the documentation to back me up -- they're all just making it up as they go along. ;-)
SD
This book is written to believers Elsie
Piper says it this way
Peter is saying "Confirm your election! Make sure of it!" How? By standing in your faith and pressing on to virtue, knowledge, self-control, patience, godliness, brotherly affection and love. John said (in 1 John 3:14), "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren" (cf. 2:3). The confirmation of your election is your progress in sanctification. God predestined all the elect to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29). Therefore, the reassuring evidence of our election is Christ-likeness.
I say it is all of God..from begining to end ..His grace called me,saved me and preserves me. He is the author and finisher of my faith ..not one wit me
Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
If not, this whole 'World' & 'Heaven' thing is a big waste of God's (and our) time!
If this is absolutely true, then Mack cannot help but believe as he does, and you are wasting your time trying to convince him otherwise.
God is the sovereign ruler over all of the universe he made, including the hearts and will of men. That said, it is also true that God is good and not the author of sin. The two statements are not mutually exclusive and the Scriptures are not ashamed to proclaim both truths.
You cannot just declare them not to be mutually exclusive. If that is your position, then you need to explain how this can be so.
How close is this to the Catholic position that man's nature is fallen, but that he is not absolutely depraved?
Agree with that 100%
So then everyone that hears the word instantly has a saving faith? Seems that something must distinguish between those that hear the word and are saved and those that hear the word and twist or ignore it ...So what is the difference?
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