Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
But... only with Joseph Smith's approval.
That was a concise and excellent explanation. Thanks Mom!
Reform doctrine says man is spiritually dead because of the fall...that means he must be Born again( regenerated )before he can desire to be saved.
Would the doctrine then be that only certain people are predestined to be "born again" and thus to desire being saved? This sounds very foreign to me; I'm more familiar with the "order of salvation" teaching as held by Mack and Becky.
As for myself, I'm even farther away from your position than Mack and Becky are, because I do not accept a doctrine of original sin.
Or........
Do you have a man REALLY called of God as your pastor, that is a strong leader, and has not buried the gospel with all kinds of extraneous stuff?
I was thinking about taking one of those new 2003 Volkswagon Schadenfreudes for a test drive. ;o)
So no one will go to hell because Christ died for all men? All the muslims and the athesists ? OR
NO one was saved at the cross...it was possible that NO ONE would have choosen Christ therefore He would have died for no one.
I don't know, Dave. Everyone else, from the Orthodox to the Protestants, seems to think you are wrong. ;o)
I never said they weren't. I think we all got off track on my original point.
The article was talking about the watering down of the word to get people to come to chruch. I said it was sad that the preacher had to remind people that at CHURCH YOUTH ACTIVITIES a short devontional that INCLUDED the plan of salvation should be given.
I now think it is just as sad that alot of people on here started in about NO, NO, NO, let the kids have fun. For heaven sakes, WHY do people think that if you talk about God, (and I don't mean just in a prayer) these kids won't have fun. This attitude says alot about peoples seriousness about God, and their love of their neighbors.
Becky
I said we believe "man is dead."
Those are not the same. Did I write something different in the original post?
Not a stupid question; in fact, it is a very good question.
I don't know why you can't just answer plainly.
Do you mean the "thy will be done" thing or this:
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Is it safe to say that you never petition God to change and only for those things that are already in His plan?
That prayer is basically an act of reconciling our desires to God's plan and not an act of asking God for what we piously desire?
SD
He provided the way. We have a choice.
Um, if God predestined everybody, then what choice do we have?
Maybe so, but I've got the documentation to back me up -- they're all just making it up as they go along. ;-)
SD
This book is written to believers Elsie
Piper says it this way
Peter is saying "Confirm your election! Make sure of it!" How? By standing in your faith and pressing on to virtue, knowledge, self-control, patience, godliness, brotherly affection and love. John said (in 1 John 3:14), "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren" (cf. 2:3). The confirmation of your election is your progress in sanctification. God predestined all the elect to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29). Therefore, the reassuring evidence of our election is Christ-likeness.
I say it is all of God..from begining to end ..His grace called me,saved me and preserves me. He is the author and finisher of my faith ..not one wit me
Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
If not, this whole 'World' & 'Heaven' thing is a big waste of God's (and our) time!
If this is absolutely true, then Mack cannot help but believe as he does, and you are wasting your time trying to convince him otherwise.
God is the sovereign ruler over all of the universe he made, including the hearts and will of men. That said, it is also true that God is good and not the author of sin. The two statements are not mutually exclusive and the Scriptures are not ashamed to proclaim both truths.
You cannot just declare them not to be mutually exclusive. If that is your position, then you need to explain how this can be so.
How close is this to the Catholic position that man's nature is fallen, but that he is not absolutely depraved?
Agree with that 100%
So then everyone that hears the word instantly has a saving faith? Seems that something must distinguish between those that hear the word and are saved and those that hear the word and twist or ignore it ...So what is the difference?
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