Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
VENTURA, Calif. -- Pollster George Barna, known these days as the bearer of bad tidings about the state of Christianity in America, arrived in his office a few minutes late for a 10 a.m. appointment.
His hair was ruffled; his eyes puffy. Shoulders slouched. Being the George Gallup of the conservative evangelical world is a heavy burden for Barna, who often works into the early morning, deciphering numbers generated by his surveys to find church trends.
The 48-year-old author of 30 books, who describes himself as a raging introvert, is a popular national speaker. And he produces enough in-your-face statistics and blunt talk to irritate pastors, cost him business and earn a reputation for having, as one magazine put it, "the gift of discouragement."
His data undercut some of the core beliefs that should, by definition, set evangelicals apart from their more liberal brethren. Findings of his polls show, for example, that:
• The divorce rate is no different for born-again Christians than for those who do not consider themselves religious.
• Only a minority of born-again adults (44 percent) and a tiny proportion of born-again teenagers (9 percent) are certain that absolute moral truth exists.
• Most Christians' votes are influenced more by economic self-interest than by spiritual and moral values.
• Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks sixth among the 21 life goals tested among born-agains, trailing such desires as "living a comfortable lifestyle."
'Are people's lives being transformed" by Christianity? Barna has asked. "We can't find evidence of a transformation."
Even Barna's toughest critics concede that Barna Research Group's polls carry considerable weight because of his first-rate surveying techniques and his 17-year-long record of tracking church and cultural trends.
His work has been used by major companies (Ford Motor Co. and Walt Disney, for example) and religious organizations such as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and World Vision.
"He is the accepted authority on church trends," said Bob Cavin, director of the Texas Baptist Leadership Center. "He gives pastors insight, not only into the effectiveness of the church, but with trends in society that help the pastors with their strategic planning."
Because of his influence, many are watching with interest as Barna branches out from his usual business. He has been preoccupied with quantifying contemporary Christian beliefs, attitudes and practices; comparing them with biblical truths; and delivering the results to pastors, Christian leaders and laity. He said that he once hoped his analyses would be used as building blocks for more relevant churches.
But he decided this year to take a more active role by helping to identify and develop new and better church leaders who will boldly go where their predecessors haven't gone before: to radically revamp the church. He said he believes the process will take decades -- generations -- to complete.
"One of our challenges is to revisit the structures and means through which people experience Christ," Barna said. "People have been talking about developing the 'new church' for the past several decades, but nothing new has been forthcoming."
According to Barna, pastors are great teachers, but not necessarily adept at leadership. To back up his claim, he cited one of his own polls: It showed that only 12 percent of senior pastors say they have the spiritual gift of leadership and 8 percent say they have the gift of evangelism. In contrast, two-thirds say they have the gift of teaching or preaching.
"We, not God, have created a system that doesn't work and that we're reluctant to change."
Barna also is in the early stages of establishing a genuine and appealing Christian presence in secular entities: film, music, media and politics. He has identified these as the institutions that hold the most influence over Americans.
What's needed are "skilled professionals who love Christ and model his ways through their thoughts, words and behavior in enviable and biblically consistent ways," he said.
For Barna, the need for better leadership and better Christian role models in the secular world was underscored by a poll he released this month.
9/11 opportunity lost
The survey showed that the Sept. 11 attacks had virtually no lasting effects on America's faith, despite a 20 percent rise in church attendance during the first few weeks afterward.
"We missed a huge opportunity," he said, adding that, because of their own shallow faith, church regulars needed so much reassurance themselves that they couldn't minister to newcomers.
This kind of comment bothers evangelical Christians.
Mike Regele, author of "The Death of the Church," is one of many who believe the Barna Research Group's statistical work is excellent, but the conclusions drawn by the company's founder are too harsh.
The hypocrisy of Christians, Regele said, "has been a part of the church, probably since the day of Pentecost" and doesn't indicate its collapse.
"It sounds like he's very, very angry at the church," said Regele, a church critic himself who is ultimately an optimist. "There are reasons to be disappointed, but scripture never said we'd be perfect. We shouldn't view the whole institution as a failure."
With each new Barna poll or book, the attacks begin again: He's too negative; he has it in for pastors; he's arrogant.
The criticism "would affect any human being," said Barna, a husband and father of two. "We all want to be loved and accepted by others, but we also have a higher calling to which we each must be true."
Barna said he has learned painfully that giving advice on how to revitalize churches in America is a hugely complex proposition that doesn't fit well into sound bites. He has learned to be more guarded.
Although his statistics often show self-described Christians living lives no different from those of atheists, Barna's faith never has wavered.
"The issue isn't whether Jesus or Christianity is real," he said. "The issue is, are Americans willing to put Christ first in their lives?
Because I have been remiss in sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with my neighbor.
Seriously, I don't mind the questions...makes me dig and think. However, it's getting too late for me tonight to delve into all of this, so I need to continue this later...
I've said this before. I have a very simple faith...not naive...simple!
BigMack
Sure sounds like you're denying God's sovereignty here: the end of the world can't come until the last of the elect chooses to repent and believe. So long as that last person holds out, the world can't come to an end?
Ah, you mean the fictional Jesus of your erroneous scriptural exegesis, performed without aid of revelation by the power of the Holy Ghost? That Jesus? The one that's required to wait on that one, single, solitary, final repentant soul?
Do you have a man REALLY called of God as your pastor, that is a strong leader, and has not watered down the gospel?More than one HERE.
Do you have the link for this article?
(It did not turn up when I searched the LA Times' site.)
Don't let them turn you to the dark side girl, your simple faith in what God has told us, is true.
Hi BigMack. Let me throw down the gauntlet. Show us all how any analysis of the Scriptures that has been presented by those of us this group would classify as "Calvinists" has violated the immediate context of any of the passages or the broad context of Scripture. I contend that the exegesis is sound. (I don't like the label "Calvinist" myself becase the doctrine predatates Calvin and I would say is the orthodox position of Peter and Paul.) The problem is that autonomous man does not like being brought squarely to grips with the idea that he is not the absolute source of authority in the universe. One does not have to like a conclusion for it to be true. God is the sovereign ruler over all of the universe he made, including the hearts and will of men. That said, it is also true that God is good and not the author of sin. The two statements are not mutually exclusive and the Scriptures are not ashamed to proclaim both truths.
Rn is mischaracterizing the free choice (Arminian) position for effect....clear contrast.
Actually we believe that man is dead from the fall. We believe not that he has enough spiritual life left to desire God, but that the Lord enlivens him to see the choice before him. In that momentarily enlivened/enlightened state he can see clearly to make a choice. (We call that prevenient grace....God's grace that comes before salvation.)
Calvinists actually also believe in prevenient grace but in a different way. The see the prevenient grace of God FULLY AND COMPLETELY saving a person BEFORE that person believes. In other words, they think that for a brief moment of time UNBELIEVERS are saved.
We believe that no man is saved until he believes.
Also, a lot of people "born again" are at church for the spiritual goodies/ spiritual high. Remember the parable of the sower? A lot of seeds get choked by weed/ love of the world.
Finally, you forget that a lot of non believers are ethical people. a lot of church people are sinners. A lot of the "good" people who aren't religious were born with (to use CS Lewis' term) "good digestion". They have a bit of wealth, a healthy body, and a good personality. They don't feel the need for God in their lives, since they lack nothing (they think).
I know druggies and drunks who desperately seek God, but fall again and again into their sin. Ditto for gays. Ditto for people with bad tempers, people with bad marriages, etc. But they repent and try again. They go to church not because they are "saved", i.e. born again and perfect, but because they are sinners and seek to change.
Is the church a house of God, or a hospital for sinners? Did Christ come to save the sinner, or to make the perfect feel good inside?
So God failed?
Can God create a rock he can't pick up?
Becky
IF God wanted too, do you think He could have given us freewill to choose? Do you think that if He gave everyone free choice He could have foreknew who would accept and who would reject, then use that knowledge to forward His plans? Would that be possible for a sovereign God?
Becky
When you boasted that you get pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. That is the definition of schadenfreude.
I know the definition. 'twas I who used the word, remember?
It is a malicious pleasure and the kind of pleasure that only a spiritual Tare would get.
I am so glad you Calvinists are all perfect. I admit that it is a pleasure that is sinful, and an impulse I should avoid. But I can learn to overcome it. Can you get over your smug habit of judging others unto eternal damnation?
Oh, BTW, Jesus is not describing the way things are in His church, but the way things are in His kingdom. You Roman Catholics are always getting that confused.
I think we've shown what side confusion reigns on. Or have you and Mack reconciled your differences?
SD
Becky
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