Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
VENTURA, Calif. -- Pollster George Barna, known these days as the bearer of bad tidings about the state of Christianity in America, arrived in his office a few minutes late for a 10 a.m. appointment.
His hair was ruffled; his eyes puffy. Shoulders slouched. Being the George Gallup of the conservative evangelical world is a heavy burden for Barna, who often works into the early morning, deciphering numbers generated by his surveys to find church trends.
The 48-year-old author of 30 books, who describes himself as a raging introvert, is a popular national speaker. And he produces enough in-your-face statistics and blunt talk to irritate pastors, cost him business and earn a reputation for having, as one magazine put it, "the gift of discouragement."
His data undercut some of the core beliefs that should, by definition, set evangelicals apart from their more liberal brethren. Findings of his polls show, for example, that:
• The divorce rate is no different for born-again Christians than for those who do not consider themselves religious.
• Only a minority of born-again adults (44 percent) and a tiny proportion of born-again teenagers (9 percent) are certain that absolute moral truth exists.
• Most Christians' votes are influenced more by economic self-interest than by spiritual and moral values.
• Desiring to have a close, personal relationship with God ranks sixth among the 21 life goals tested among born-agains, trailing such desires as "living a comfortable lifestyle."
'Are people's lives being transformed" by Christianity? Barna has asked. "We can't find evidence of a transformation."
Even Barna's toughest critics concede that Barna Research Group's polls carry considerable weight because of his first-rate surveying techniques and his 17-year-long record of tracking church and cultural trends.
His work has been used by major companies (Ford Motor Co. and Walt Disney, for example) and religious organizations such as the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and World Vision.
"He is the accepted authority on church trends," said Bob Cavin, director of the Texas Baptist Leadership Center. "He gives pastors insight, not only into the effectiveness of the church, but with trends in society that help the pastors with their strategic planning."
Because of his influence, many are watching with interest as Barna branches out from his usual business. He has been preoccupied with quantifying contemporary Christian beliefs, attitudes and practices; comparing them with biblical truths; and delivering the results to pastors, Christian leaders and laity. He said that he once hoped his analyses would be used as building blocks for more relevant churches.
But he decided this year to take a more active role by helping to identify and develop new and better church leaders who will boldly go where their predecessors haven't gone before: to radically revamp the church. He said he believes the process will take decades -- generations -- to complete.
"One of our challenges is to revisit the structures and means through which people experience Christ," Barna said. "People have been talking about developing the 'new church' for the past several decades, but nothing new has been forthcoming."
According to Barna, pastors are great teachers, but not necessarily adept at leadership. To back up his claim, he cited one of his own polls: It showed that only 12 percent of senior pastors say they have the spiritual gift of leadership and 8 percent say they have the gift of evangelism. In contrast, two-thirds say they have the gift of teaching or preaching.
"We, not God, have created a system that doesn't work and that we're reluctant to change."
Barna also is in the early stages of establishing a genuine and appealing Christian presence in secular entities: film, music, media and politics. He has identified these as the institutions that hold the most influence over Americans.
What's needed are "skilled professionals who love Christ and model his ways through their thoughts, words and behavior in enviable and biblically consistent ways," he said.
For Barna, the need for better leadership and better Christian role models in the secular world was underscored by a poll he released this month.
9/11 opportunity lost
The survey showed that the Sept. 11 attacks had virtually no lasting effects on America's faith, despite a 20 percent rise in church attendance during the first few weeks afterward.
"We missed a huge opportunity," he said, adding that, because of their own shallow faith, church regulars needed so much reassurance themselves that they couldn't minister to newcomers.
This kind of comment bothers evangelical Christians.
Mike Regele, author of "The Death of the Church," is one of many who believe the Barna Research Group's statistical work is excellent, but the conclusions drawn by the company's founder are too harsh.
The hypocrisy of Christians, Regele said, "has been a part of the church, probably since the day of Pentecost" and doesn't indicate its collapse.
"It sounds like he's very, very angry at the church," said Regele, a church critic himself who is ultimately an optimist. "There are reasons to be disappointed, but scripture never said we'd be perfect. We shouldn't view the whole institution as a failure."
With each new Barna poll or book, the attacks begin again: He's too negative; he has it in for pastors; he's arrogant.
The criticism "would affect any human being," said Barna, a husband and father of two. "We all want to be loved and accepted by others, but we also have a higher calling to which we each must be true."
Barna said he has learned painfully that giving advice on how to revitalize churches in America is a hugely complex proposition that doesn't fit well into sound bites. He has learned to be more guarded.
Although his statistics often show self-described Christians living lives no different from those of atheists, Barna's faith never has wavered.
"The issue isn't whether Jesus or Christianity is real," he said. "The issue is, are Americans willing to put Christ first in their lives?
I repeat: That is your spin, Steve. You need, instead, to be truthful.
One day you will deeply regret your mockery and scorn and pharisaic tactics. Your mind has been poisoned, and you seek to poison the minds of others.
You owe us all such a huge and profound apology that you will not be able to find words to express it when the time comes. Will it be forthcoming? Not until you repent and have a change of heart.
You have been greatly deceived, and have not manifested the love of God or a love of the truth.
I refer you to my #926.
A statement based on facts that are true, and well and properly attested, as the Holy Spirit bears witness.
ksen is pointing out, I believe, that it is improper for Calvinists to attribute such things to God, that God would choose without regard to our efforts to repent and improve.
If ksen isn't pointing that out, then I certainly am.
It happens because God is sovereign, Terry.
As you can see, Terry is already accusing you of believing that man's will is sovereign, which is ridiculous, even though you have made it clear that you believe that God is sovereign.
That is what aggressive Calvinists always do.
Another thing they always do is question and then deny your salvation, ignoring what you have already said. They also claim that you think you can save yourself.
Keep posting with aggressive Calvinists and you will see them attack you and accuse you, more and more. They will keep it up until you agree to accept their private interpretation of the Bible. Only then will they call you saved. Only then will your account of your conversion experience be "good enough".
Thus they substitute their own requirements in place of the Biblical requirements for salvation, which is a BIG no-no, and will get them in BIG trouble with their Maker.
They are a nasty bunch. The nicer you are with them, the nastier they will be with you. Their behavior is not Christian. They do not understand the Bible. They think God requires them to behave this way. They do not know God.
You have seen how they attack me and my faith. They are attacking the Catholic faith now in a thread that was just moved to the Smokey Backroom. (See #989-992 on this thread, and Terry's #993 trying in vain to defend their awful behavior.)
They will in process of time attack you and your faith just as vigorously. The aggressive Calvinists who behave this way need to be banned, but this is JimRob's forum, and he doesn't like it, but he tolerates it, not realizing the harm that they do.
I would recommend an exception for abusive or threatening freepmails, especially if received by women. They need to see the light of day so the abuser, maybe the monster, who sends them can be confronted publicly, if the moderator does not otherwise resolve it. If the recipient thinks they have to keep the abuse hidden, it can aggravate ulcers or the distress may manifest in other ways.
I am glad to count you as my friend. You have never done one single thing to trash my faith so visciously as those on that thread did. We may not always agree, but at least I know that when I debate you that you will have repsect for me as a human being and that you aren't going to trash what is sacred to me.
No wonder I post so little here anymore. Its nothing but a den full of pit vipers. They do not know Christ. In their pompous self-righteousness they have condemned everyone but their hands are not clean or saved. They're just evil--inherently evil.
I think this is an interesting statement in light of the previous question I asked you regarding the experiential/doctrinal spectrum. I have understood that prophecy can have multi-layered meaning in time. I'm wondering if you believe that parables are in the same category in that they can have multiple meanings to different individuals or if they teach one objective truth or set of truths?
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