Miracle Cure Brings Sainthood to Polish Nun (Divine Mercy)

Detroit News via the Washington Post ^ | April 26, 2000 | Carlyle Murphy

[drstevej]

***However I think even the Catholics are allowed some degree of private communion with Our Lord.***

But private communion with the Lord is not the issue under discussion. The issue under consideration is religious discussion / debate on a public forum. The context is teaching rather than devotion.

[Aliska]

Hatefest? Hardly. I see two groups vigorously defending their beliefs. I see no hate.

Au contraire. Everything was upbeat until reply number 5 in which this statement changed the tenor of the discussion:

Let me get this straight; you think it is a positive thing when people idolize other people?!!?

That was a snide snipe at catholic beliefs and practices. Then a chorus of bible-only people joined in and have succeeded in ruining any joy there was about the priest being healed and giving glory to God for the miracle.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Perhaps all you Catholics can clear up for me where Prayer to the Saints... is Scriptural. ~ (SMEDLEYBUTLER)

I'll be happy to provide you with many passages from Scripture, but first I need to know if you ever recite the Apostles' Creed and utter the words "communion of saints"?

I just can't seem to find in this passage where it says to pray to the dead or pray to any man.

While not limiting ourselves to this one passage, is it your contention that the Saints in heaven are dead and that Jesus was not a man?

[RnMomof7]

There is nothing explicit in the bible about women receiving communion (or eating the bread if you are protestant). You will want to put a stop to that for the sake of scriptural purity.

sure there is

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

God is not a respecter of persons..When He looks at the saints He sees His son!

[MarMema]

Acts 1:3 He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God

And what were those things Christ spoke about, and where are they described in the Bible? What if the Apostles chose to transmit those specific teachings by word instead of writing them down?

[MarMema]

Acts 1:3 He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

Yes, CC. What were those things Christ spoke of and where are they discussed in the Bible? What if Christ and/or the Apostles chose/were told to hand down those things by word instead and not by writing them down?

[Aliska]

You missed the point entirely. I know what the scriptures say about the sexes.

[RnMomof7]

To add tradition to Scripture is like a teenager spray painting a Rembrandt.

A ping for the good doctor

[JMJ333]

What I am saying is that you can trace the bible being compiled back to a council over which resided Pope Damasis I. It took a long time before it was finally hashed out. There is authority found there. The fact is, the only reason you and he and I have the New Testament canon is because of the trustworthy teaching authority of the Catholic Church.

Woody rejects that authority. So, I ask, who is his authority that decides what is proper scripture and what is his his authority that backs up his interpretations. He says himself. If a person is going to tell me how I should read scripture they had better have something to back up what they say besides the lame argument of self interpretation. It won't wash with me.

[Catholicguy]

On the basis of 2 Timothy 3:16-17, then, let's entertain for discussion the Protestant contention that Scripture is essentially perspicuous:

ADJECTIVE: Clearly expressed or presented; easy to understand.

II Peter 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

II Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

<> Do you see the problems you run into here? OP, you make this sort of mistake repeatedly because you think you have authority to decide what the Bible does and doesn't mean. You make this sweeping assertion that the Bible is easy to understand when it clearly isn't. That is why you disagree with Xins, me, restornau et al as to what it does and doesn't mean

Is is only after CENTURIES of Catholic Teaching that Christology was defined. It is only thanks to the Catholic Church - none other - to depend upon for its surety of Doctrine that you able now to engage in Eisegesis and read into Scripture that which is not pellucid.

The first centuries witnessed Innumerable attacks on the Traditon of Christology and the Correct Teaching was developed and taught by ONLY the Catholic Church and numerous were the heresies that erred in either ascribing too much or too little of the Divine Nature to Jesus. The landscape was littered with private interpreters, like yourself, who thought themselves competent to war against the Pillar and Ground of Truth, the Catholic Church.

The second quote of Peter warns us against folks, like Calvin, who came along with his own personal opinions and usurped Divinely-constituted Authority. <>

[JMJ333]

Thanks, Des. ;)

[Wrigley]

Where was that second quote from. It sure wasn't mine.

[MarMema]

You make this sweeping assertion that the Bible is easy to understand when it clearly isn't.

Well another near-miracle for today. I am in complete agreement with you, CatholicGuy. I hope you are sitting down.

[MarMema]

It is only thanks to the Catholic Church - none other -

Except for this part....

[Aliska]

I didn't say it was. Read post #5. That's when this thread turned sour.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Sorry, don't buy it. The bible says there is one intercessor and that is Christ. Not even Moses can stand up and intercede now for the Jews so don't think some human, who may or may not be in heaven, is going to do anything for you.

Incorrect. The Bible says that there is one mediator, Christ, mediator and intercessor are two different things.

1 Timothy 2:1 "I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:"

1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:"

[Catholicguy]

CatholicGuy. I hope you are sitting down

<> LOL I am flat on my back :)

[RnMomof7]

If all communication with the deceased is evil, then Jesus did something evil during the Transfiguration.

Jesus is God...(in case you had forgotton:>)

Did He have the apostles talk to them?

[Codie]

If any and all communication with dead people was forbidden, then one of the prodigies that God caused upon the death of our Lord was an occasion of sin. "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." (Matt. 27: 52-53 KJV)