Miracle Cure Brings Sainthood to Polish Nun (Divine Mercy)

Detroit News via the Washington Post ^ | April 26, 2000 | Carlyle Murphy

[Aliska]

Miracle Cure: Priest's recovery brings sainthood to Polish nun

By Caryle Murphy/The Washington Post In 1995, the Rev. Ronald P. Pytel, just 48, had resigned himself to an idle life and early death. His heart was so damaged that simply walking made him winded. His complexion was pallid, his weight a gaunt 140 pounds. His quality of life, he recalls one doctor saying, "wasn't worth a plug nickel." But the pastor of Holy Rosary Catholic Church in Baltimore, like many of his parishioners, had long been devoted to Faustina Kowalska, a Polish nun and mystic who died in 1938. At a healing service in October 1995, he and a dozen church members were praying to her for his health when Pytel fell to the floor and, although conscious, couldn't get up for 15 minutes. "I could talk, but I couldn't move a muscle," he recalled. "It was as though I was paralyzed." When he finally stood up, he felt so fit he began laughing. Nowadays, the blond Pytel has the rosy cheeks of a choirboy, weighs a hearty 170 pounds and swims with abandon. His pumping machine is so robust he jokes of having "the heart of a 19-year-old." He and his parishioners call what happened a miracle. And so does the Catholic Church.

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[RobbyS]

Well, it gives you an advantage when YOU get to say what "scriptural" means. And like Luther and Calvin you choose--without being able to point to any EXPRESS scriptural warrant --that the Bible is the sole rule of faith. But that identifies Bible and Scripture without your being able to show that what we call the Bible and what we call Scripture are in fact identical. Such identification is simply a matter of "tradition."

[CCWoody]

In other words, you are your own authority for your interpretations of scripture. Its laughable to claim that the Holy Spirit guided you to interpret scripture correctly. Laughable.

I liked your characterization of "crap" better. Nevertheless, if you have the Authority, then it should become plainly obvious in our present question--prayer to the saints as being scriptural--as you will shortly slaughter us in the discussion.

Your one and only problem is that you aren't. Your view is getting spanked hard.

How do you know the scipture you are using is truly inspired since it was compiled by Rome? The authority you reject?

Objective analysis and having spiritual eyes and ears! BTW the Bible was "compiled" by the Holy Spirit. I bet your answer is because someone said so. Pity for you.

I already said the prayer is "to" the saint....

And I'm still waiting for you to justify this Biblically. You RC's made the claim that "Prayer to the Saints.... is Scriptural." It is beginning to look like this is a fantasy land theology just like your Trinity doctrine.

That you choose to continually ignore that is telling.

Ahem, you need to post some scripture first. Please start with a refutation of OP's last post on the subject. Oh, and like I said, feel free to pray to mouldy green cheese if you want. I care not. Just don't claim it's Biblical when it is not. That is akin to weeing on my foot and telling me it's raining.

[RnMomof7]

What part of the word "intercessory" don't you understand? You sit there looking down you nose at us in disdain and smugness and can't figure out how to look up a word in the dictionary and see out how it applies to the saints. We aren't worshiping them, oh highly favored one. We only worship the Trinity. We ASK the saints for help with intercessory prayer. Apparently, this is too complicated for you to grasp.

jM do you have a scriptual reference for intercession to the dead?

[CCWoody]

There is nothing explicit in the bible about women receiving communion (or eating the bread if you are protestant). You will want to put a stop to that for the sake of scriptural purity.

This is irrelavent to the discussion. You RC's have put for the idea that "Prayer to to the Saints... is Scriptural." If it's not, then simply admit that it is not and we can then move onto the question of is it right. If it is, then please produce the scripture cites, with your explaination, to show that it is Scriptural.

Besides, you are probably think about your blasphemous RC Eucharist as being not Scriptural. I'd agree as any type of Communion which has a priest calling down Jesus to be murdered on the altar every week is not Scriptural. Nevertheless, I can defend my beliefs regarding the Lord Supper directly from the Scriptures.

[MarMema]

CC,
Christianity is above all a mystery, and should be approached as such. It is more than Holy Scripture, which a recording of the events and teachings surrounding the mystery as well as the word of God.
But to rely completely on Scripture is, to me, like making a great piece of art into a coloring book. There are times that Christ spent with the Apostles which are not discussed in the Bible, such as the forty days after Pentecost.
Additionally, there are many things in Scripture which I am not aware of protestants doing, such as using incense and fasting. Correct me if I am wrong.

The Saints are those who were able to overcome the passions of this world and reach into the next. Certainly they are more alive than we are here in this world now. There is nothing wrong with involving them in our pursuit of God-pleasing perfection here on earth. As sinners we should avail ourselves of every avenue of assistance we can to become more like Christ.

[drstevej]

***But to rely completely on Scripture is, to me, like making a great piece of art into a coloring book.***

To add tradition to Scripture is like a teenager spray painting a Rembrandt.

[CCWoody]

Didn't St.Paul (entreated, implored) saints to pray for him to God?

If I remember so, he did. Still, my asking you to pray for me or pray with me is far different than me praying to you. I can point to clear Biblical scriptures which allow me to pray for other people and for me to specifically seek from other people prayers concering healing.

OTOH, I'm still waiting for all the Scripture to back up the RC claim that "Prayer to the Saints... is Scriptural."

[JMJ333]

Sock posted scripture in post 82 and gave a very good summation in regard to the issue of saints. You never addressed that, nor did you address the points I made in reference to sola scriptura and the Trinity. I am not going to keep asking because you admited yourself that you interpret scripture however you see fit with no authority except yourself--and you don't even see how laughable that is.

[RnMomof7]

Are not prayers to and for the dead an old Jewish custom?

So was sacrificing bulls and lambs for the forgivness of sin..

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[Aliska]

I'm disgusted. I don't really care who is right and who is wrong. You would think some people would be happy that the priest was healed. Noooooooooooooo.

This thread which started on a very positive note has turned into a hatefest.

Any points bible-only believers have scored with me in the past have been offset by their malignant hatred of anyone or anything that doesn't conform to their rigid and narrow interpretation of the scriptures.

I would never want to associate with any church who makes their "raison d'etre" hatred of another sect rather than their love for Jesus Christ.

It seems to me some Christians need to get the beam out of their asses.

[JMJ333]

Given your (the RCC) position on authority, should you not restrict your comments on theological discussions to either quoting Scripture from the approved RC translation and / or quote a pronouncement by the Magisterium?

That is exactly as I have done on this thread. No position I have taken deviates from what has been taught by the Catholic church. The reason I keep repeatedly asking for his authority is because there is no weight in an argument offered from personal interpretation as he keeps doing. There is no one to back up his assertions save himself and that is not good enough.

[JMJ333]

I am sorry for the thread going off in a different direction than that of the priest being healed. I think it is wonderful news. He looks like such a sweet person.

As a side note, our parish did a 9 day novena that ended on mercy sunday this past Easter season. I loved it. It compelled me to go back and re-read a good portion of her diary. One would think that reading a nuns diary would be boring, but it isn't. Its actually very inspiring. =)

[drstevej]

***No position I have taken deviates from what has been taught by the Catholic church.***

Perhaps you missed my point.

When you offer ANY discussion, paraphrasing or explanation of the Bible or Magisterial Tradition that goes BEYOND a DIRECT VERBATIM QUOTE, you violate your own dictum against private interpretation.

Do you understand my point even if you don't agree with it?

[RnMomof7]

The bible is not a full scale theological treatise, nor a teaching manual.

That is not what the Bible tells us about itself

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jesus used it for teaching

Mat 21:42   Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Mar 12:24   And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

[Codie]

So,what you really want is Scripture to back up the RC claim that "Prayer to dead Saints... is Scriptural?"

[MarMema]

The church is a living organism, extremely complex and not entirely of this world. It is theandric, it is the bearer of mysteries celebrated since the earliest times.
Without the totality of the church, how can one be illumined and become perfected in Christ? Scripture reading is of this world, but the liturgy, though primarily based on Scripture, is of the next. It is through the liturgy of the people that we are elevated toward Christ-like perfection, and this is the essential mystery of Christianity, which cannot be explained in words or written in any book.

[JMJ333]

I understand you, but think it is tap dancing extrodinaire. =) Nothing personal!!

By authority, I don’t mean his personal or academic credentials. I mean his authority to claim he can rightly interpret the Bible. Unless I am addressing a Mormon in which case his authority is the Book of Mormon, he claims to fall back himself as authority. Scripture says this or Scripture proves that, because he says so.

He can't prove from the Bible that the Bible is the only rule of faith. He can't tell me how he knows which books belong in the Bible in the first place. And his assertion that he has the authority to interpret the Bible for me on saints or any other matter is ridiculous, in light that there is nothing that would be sufficuent in deeming his interpretations will always be accurate.

Until he can come up with a better answer then I am done arguing with him.

[NYer]

You simply need to show me from the Bible where Prayer to the Saints... is Scriptural.

1. Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15,12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesites) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20). The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.

2. The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the rayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God"(Rev. 8:3-4).

[drstevej]

My question was to you without reference to any other post. It was not "tap dancing" it was an attempt to show you that you violate your own principle.

Second, earlier you acknowledged that Jesus condemned the Pharisees' tradition which contradicted / made void the Word of God. I heartily agree with you.

[CCWoody]

One of the other posters has already posted this to you. Although you are technically connect in saying that these passages do not explicitly exhort us to pray to saints and angels, they do indicate that the practice was followed in the early Church, and with the approval of the Apostle John.

In order for these verses to say what you want them to say they need a little editing.

[cut, cut, cut, add, add, add]

• Rev. 5:8. And when He had taken the book, four living creatures and the twenty?four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp, and golden bowls full incense, which are the prayers to the saints.
• Rev. 8:4. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers to the saints, went up before God out of the angel's hand.

There! It does seem that instead of simply reading the verses for what they actually say--"prayers of the saints"--you somehow read this as saying--"prayers to the saints." Perhaps you will now realize that these passages do not even infer that "Prayer to the Saints... is Scriptural" but rather you as an RC must assume that these passage permit it.

Since in your very next post, you concede that saints as a Biblical word includes more than just those who have died in Christ, this really does damage to the RC claim that "Prayer to the Saints... is Scriptural."