Names of Bishops Calling for Plenary Council Revealed

Catholic World News (sorry, no link!) | 8/7/02 | Antoninus

[Antoninus]

According to a Catholic World News article, the following are the names of the Bishops who are calling for the Plenary Council:

Archbishops Oscar Lipscomb of Atlanta, Georgia; John Vlazny of Portland, Oregon; Daniel Cronin of Hartford, Connecticut; and James Keleher of Kansas City, Kansas. Also signing were Bishops Raymond Burke of LaCrosse, Wisconsin; Robert Morlino of Helena, Montana; Daniel DiNardo of Sioux City, Iowa, and Detroit auxiliary Allen Vigneron.

What do we know about any of these guys? I don't see Bishop Bruskewitz on here, so I'm immediately suspicious.

[eastsider]

Wow, this bunch are planning to use the Delphi technique I bet!

Good call. (Here's a link for those unfamiliar with the Delphi technique.)

[eastsider]

In the United States, the presidency of such synods has always been accorded by the Holy See to the archbishops of Baltimore.

Baltimore, huh?

Great catch, Romulus. William Keeler. Cardinal "Gay Friendly" himself.

[madprof98]

Oscar Lipscomb (Atlanta) allows his priests to celebrate Rainbow masses every Sunday at 8:30 and 11:30 a.m. at the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception (a Catholic church), 48 Martin Luther King Boulevard, Atlanta, GA.

This is very misleading. First of all, Lipscomb is the bishop of Mobile, Alabama, not the archbishop of Atlanta. John Donaghue is the archbishop here. And the masses in question, at the Catholic Shrine downtown, are not "Rainbow" masses. Rather, Dignity recommends that its members attend the regular Shrine masses, i.e., the two Sunday masses, rather than having a separate mass for members. This has continued through the tenure of several different pastors with differing attitudes toward homosexual behavior.

[american colleen]

I read somewhere that the last American Plenary Council was called in the 1880s and the result of that was the formation of Catholic Schools...

I am cautiously optimistic...I can't help it!

[Domestic Church]

Baltimore is the primatial see here...first one started.

[american colleen]

If it came to that, would the people throw in with Rome or with their pastors? A council could provoke a split in the church that'd make this summer's storms seem like a day at the beach. I'd like to see a lot more about why nothing but a council will do before feeling sanguine about it.

What other means could be used to get this agenda (assuming that what the letter says is what they want to accomplish) on the table? I know the hierarchy meets in November, but that doesn't mean that these issues will be addressed.

At least, assuming the council takes place according to the letter sent out, everything would be on the table, out in the open and we wouldn't have to do research to find out where the different Cardinals and Bishops stand on the issues.

All this coincides with the release of the New Roman Missel. Hmmm.

[american colleen]

Missel = Missal...duh.

Oh for an automatic spellcheck on FR!

[eastsider]

This is very misleading. First of all, Lipscomb is the bishop of Mobile, Alabama, not the archbishop of Atlanta.

Correction noted: Lipscomb is the bishop of Mobile, Alabama. I did a cut and paste from the article at the head of this thread, and did not first check the USCCB website.

And the masses in question, at the Catholic Shrine downtown, are not "Rainbow" masses. Rather, Dignity recommends that its members attend the regular Shrine masses, i.e., the two Sunday masses, rather than having a separate mass for members. This has continued through the tenure of several different pastors with differing attitudes toward homosexual behavior.

First, I hold the local ordinary responsible for "gay friendly" pastors or priests, or so-called "gay friendly" parishes in his diocese. Second, assuming Dignity/Atlanta does not hold separate Rainbow Masses, the most that can be said is that Bishop Donoghue moves from Group A to Group B, since the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception is listed on St. Bernadette's National Directory of "Gay Friendly" Parishes. Third, if anything, Dignity/Atlanta's success at mainstreaming themselves in Atlanta's Catholic community is an even more ominous indication of Bishop Donoghue's "gay friendly" sympathies than my original Group A classification would indicate.

And if it turns out that the article meant Lipscomb rather than Donghue, Lipscomb would be listed in Group C.

[eastsider]

Correction: Lipscomb would be listed in Group B because St. Bebe's in Montgomery is listed on St. Bernadette's list, and Montgomery is part of the Diocese of Mobile.

[madprof98]

. . . an even more ominous indication of Bishop Donoghue's "gay friendly" sympathies . . .

Ominous? Ominous? Archbishop Donaghue is no friend of mine, but he is a party-line man, and JPII is the head of his party. Anyone who lives here would know how ridiculous that characterization sounds--and that indicates to me the danger of your own efforts to indict our religious leaders on the basis of a few minutes of Internet "research."

[Antoninus]

I'm still left uneasy by this. The best voice in support of it is Gumbleton's in opposition, but that still doesn't give me great hope. I will trust the Church on this though, if it goes forward it may be a real turning point in America.

Ditto. If this does come off, can we at least make an attempt to be a presence there? There's no doubt that the Call to Action-crowd will be out in force at such a plenary council. It would be nice if the rest of us EWTN Catholics could show up in numbers that make them realize what a minority they are.

[Antoninus]

My own parish priest says Bruskewitz is from the Dark Ages.

Perhaps the next time he says that, you could respond, "Did they have many priestly pedophiles in the Dark Ages?"

[sinkspur]

Ominous? Ominous? Archbishop Donaghue is no friend of mine, but he is a party-line man, and JPII is the head of his party. Anyone who lives here would know how ridiculous that characterization sounds--and that indicates to me the danger of your own efforts to indict our religious leaders on the basis of a few minutes of Internet "research."

I have to agree with you.

I'm not sure we ought to be classifying bishops as "gay friendly" just because they're not driving openly gay people out of Catholic parishes. While hosting Masses for Dignity is not something any bishop ought to allow, I'm not really sure what a "gay-friendly parish" is.

[sinkspur]

Perhaps the next time he says that, you could respond, "Did they have many priestly pedophiles in the Dark Ages?"

There have been priestly pedophiles in ALL ages.

[american colleen]

LOL. I might not want to hear the answer, though.

Have you ever seen "The name of the Rose?"

[american colleen]

It would be nice if the rest of us EWTN Catholics could show up in numbers that make them realize what a minority they are.

Wouldn't that be great? All holding signs with JPII on them.

Before I get flamed from the possible non-C lurkers, yes, it would be wonderful to hold a sign with a picture of Christ, but we all (both "sides" of the issues) believe in Christ as our Saviour and our only salvation. What we are trying to get across is that we are united by the teaching of the Living, teaching Church that He left behind.

[Polycarp]

Thanks! This deserves a thread of its own! Would you be so kind?

[Romulus]

What other means could be used to get this agenda (assuming that what the letter says is what they want to accomplish) on the table?

You want my opinion? The bishops need to feel the heat from us. They need letters, e-mails, and (when possible) some pointed remarks in person. They need to know that important financial support is at risk. They need to feel the heat from Rome too (which might discover some steel in its own spine if they thought the laity was with them and not with AmChurch).

[ELS]

Baltimore is the primatial see here...first one started.

While it's true that Baltimore was the first see in the US, it has no primatial jurisdiction. From NYer's reply:

In the United States, the presidency of such synods has always been accorded by the Holy See to the archbishops of Baltimore. In their case, a papal delegation is necessary, for although they have a precedence of honour over all the other American metropolitans, yet they have no primatial or patriarchal jurisdiction.

[Catholicguy]

but a council will do before feeling sanguine about it.

Well, I am worried it will interfere with the football season. :)

Seriously, I hope they do it. I couldn't care less about the media. We KNOW they will distort. We ought to have enough confidence or courage to say "let it happen".

Just do it. Choose. NOW. I am sick and tired of the shuffle