Does God force you to believe or can you resist? Irresistible Grace -- Not a Bible Teaching.

According to the Canons of Dordt (Third & Fourth Heads of Doctrine -- Article 11), "But when God accomplishes His good pleasure in the elect, or works in them true conversion, He not only causes the gospel to be externally preached to them, and powerfully illuminates their minds by His Holy Spirit, that they may rightly understand and discern the things of the Spirit of God; but by the efficacy of the same regenerating Spirit He pervades the inmost recesses of man; He opens the closed and softens the hardened heart, and circumcises that which was uncircumcised; infuses new qualities into the will, which, though heretofore dead, He quickens; from being evil, disobedient, and refractory, He renders it good, obedient, and pliable; actuates and strengthens it, that like a good tree, it may bring forth the fruits of good actions."

Article 12 states: "And this is that regeneration so highly extolled in Scripture ... which God works in us without our aid. It is evidently a supernatural work, most powerful, and at the same time most delightful, astonishing, mysterious, and ineffable. All in whose heart God works in this marvelous manner are certainly, infallibly, and effectually regenerated, and do actually believe."

Article 22 of The Belgic Confession states: "We believe that, to attain a true knowledge of this great mystery, the Holy Spirit kindles in our hearts an upright faith, which embraces Jesus Christ with all His merits, appropriates Him, and seeks nothing more besides Him."

John Calvin, in his Institutes of the Christian Religion, writes that God "has given the true knowledge of Himself in an internal manner, by the illumination of His Spirit, without the intervention of any preaching."

Calvinism teaches that those who are not of the elect "cannot believe, even though he hears the external preaching of the Word and perhaps reads it for himself many times!" In the elect, however, "the Holy Spirit works IRRESISTIBLY, regenerating him so that he understands fully that he is a sinner and needs God, and, therefore, wants to be saved and to believe" (Dr. Edwin H. Palmer, The Five Points of Calvinism, p. 48).

"Thus, the once dead sinner is drawn to Christ by the inward supernatural call of the Spirit who through regeneration makes him alive and creates within him faith and repentance. The special inward call of the Spirit never fails to result in the conversion of those to whom it is made. This special call is not made to all sinners, but it is issued to the elect only! The Spirit is in no way dependent upon their help or cooperation for success in His work of bringing them to Christ. It is for this reason that Calvinists speak of the Spirit's call and of God's grace in saving sinners as being 'efficacious,' 'invincible,' or 'irresistible.' For the grace which the Holy Spirit extends to the elect cannot be thwarted or refused, it never fails to bring them to true faith in Christ!" (Steele & Thomas, The Five Points of Calvinism, p. 49).

Is Calvinism's doctrine of Irresistible Grace a valid teaching in light of God's Word? Let us again ask some important questions and seek their answer from the inspired Scriptures.

This doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit gives faith to the elect even before they have heard the gospel. Indeed, it maintains one cannot either understand or accept the gospel unless he has first been given faith to do so. Is faith something imposed irresistibly upon the elect, or does it come from hearing and accepting the Word of God?

Romans 10:17 ..... "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." "But many of those who had heard the word believed" (Acts 4:4).

John 20:30-31 ..... "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

John 17:20 ..... "I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word." "Send to Joppa, and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; and he shall speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household" (Acts 11:13-14).

Acts 18:4, 8 ..... "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. And Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized."

James 1:18, 21 ..... "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth .... Therefore, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls." "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" (I Corinthians 15:1-2).

Romans 1:16 ..... "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."

Luke 8:11, 15 ..... (The Parable of the Sower) --- "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. And the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance."

I Corinthians 1:21 ..... "God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

Calvinism's doctrine of Irresistible Grace teaches that you cannot resist the grace of God, nor can you resist His Spirit. What does the Bible say? (Can you resist the grace of God and can you resist the Holy Spirit?)

Revelation 3:20 ..... "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me." The Holy Spirit is a gentleman! He knocks at the door of your heart, he doesn't kick it down! Man has the choice to hear and open, or to refuse Him entrance.

Matthew 23:37 ..... "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem ... How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."

II Timothy 3:8 ..... "And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose (resist) the truth." "Thou didst bear with them for many years, and admonished them by Thy Spirit through Thy prophets, yet they would not give ear" (Nehemiah 9:30). "The angel of His presence saved them; in His love and in His mercy He redeemed them. But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, and fought against them" (Isaiah 63:9-10).

Acts 7:51 ..... "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did." "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God" (Ephesians 4:30). "Do not quench the Spirit" (I Thessalonians 5:19).

Does God give His Holy Spirit to the elect before they have heard, believed and accepted the gospel (as Calvinism teaches), or does He bestow His Spirit only upon those who have accepted Christ?

John 14:17 ..... Jesus promises to send to His disciples "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him."

John 7:38-39 ..... "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.' This He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive."

Acts 2:38 ..... "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." "God has given the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32). Peter says that the Gentiles received the same gift (the Holy Spirit) as the Jews did, "after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 11:17).

Galatians 4:6 ..... "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!'"

Ephesians 1:13-14 ..... "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance."

Galatians 3:2 ..... "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

Galatians 3:13-14 ..... "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' -- in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." Calvinists would say that we receive faith through the Spirit; God's Word says we receive the Spirit through faith! Nowhere in the Word of God does it teach that the Holy Spirit directly, miraculously, and irresistibly opens and enters the hearts of unbelieving and unrepentant sinners and regenerates them against their will.

"The doctrine of the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit in the conversion of man, sometimes referred to as 'special' or 'saving' or 'irresistible' grace; teaching that man is inherently depraved and cannot respond to the gospel without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit; is man's doctrine, not Bible doctrine. If the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit is true, then the logical implication is that the Word of God is insufficient in the conversion of the sinner. If the doctrine of Irresistible Grace is true, then it places the responsibility of salvation entirely upon God and destroys the responsibility of man to act. If Irresistible Grace is truly 'irresistible,' it destroys the 'free moral agency' of man" (David Gibson, Calvin's TULIP Theology).

I can't seem to separate where you disagree with me from where you agree with me. Why don't you just post your opinion in your own words. Then after you post your opinion we can compare it to mine and then determine if there is a disagreement. :-)

_{I will say, however that your contention that God only loved a small part of the world is one example of how Calvinists must twist the scripture to conform to their theology.}

believers in hell

There will be no believers in hell. All believers will be saved "yet so as by fire."

I cannot fathom that anyone who meets the contingency of John 3:16 can possibly end up in hell. If "eternal" life is revokable, then eternal punishment would likewise be revokable. If "Eternal" Punsishment is revokable then there was never any need for the cross.

The promise to Adam in the garden was an eternal promise. It was based on a COVENANT. Adam was required to NOT EAT of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In the day that he did, he would surely die.

God has had such conditions on an eternal covenant in the past.

The conditions of the New Testament(covenant) are: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

Be a believer and you're saved. Be a non-believer and you're lost.

An event or condition that is likely but not inevitable.
A share or quota, as of troops, contributed to a general effort.
A representative group forming part of an assemblage.

If you are going to maintain that the natural fallen man is likely to believe, then you are going to need to provide Biblical scriptures to back you up. Until then, I will maintain that "Salvation is of the Lord."

I will say, however that your contention that God only loved a small part of the world is one example of how Calvinists must twist the scripture to conform to their theology.

Let me say that mercy is God's "attitude" toward some of us in the world. I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say that "God has love toward every sinner" unless you mean that the common grace extends to every man alike. Nevertheless God does not love everyone:

Pro 11:20 They that are of a froward heart [are] abomination to the LORD: but [such as are] upright in [their] way [are] his delight.

Pro 16:5 Every one [that is] proud in heart [is] an abomination to the LORD: [though] hand [join] in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

How do you reconcile verses which say that God hates the wicked to mean that God loves the wicked?

You have to believe for yourself.

Please explain what Arminians believe regarding those who don't have an opportunity to hear the Bible, know Jesus, experience "belief for yourself."

As a Calvinist, I believe God is the sole arbitor of each man's destiny. "Belief" is a tangible sign of God's grace, but my faith recognizes that God, in His wisdom, can save or not save, anyone He wishes, regardless of their station in life.

What then does the Arminian say to the person half-way across the globe, who's never heard of Christ nor the Cross, in light of your statement, "You have to believe for yourself?"

If salvation is dependent on man's acceptance of God's offer of grace, what about those who live and die without "hearing the Word" and have no opportunity to choose for themselves God's gift of salvation?

Regarding your #559, I cannot see how your point is in any way related to my statement. Could you explain it in terms even a child can understand. Are you saying that there will be believers in hell? If that is possible then how do you reconcile your idea of eternal security?

I'm not addressing what you said, but why you said it. The very statement itself only has any sense if you are under the impression that the natural fallen man is likely to believe on his own. You said precisely that when you said this:

Salvation is contingent upon belief. "That whosoever believes in him..." That means it is open to everyone,

Therefore, if you are going to maintain that the natural fallen man is likely to believe, then you are going to need to provide Biblical scriptures to back you up. Until then, I will maintain that "Salvation is of the Lord."

Beyond that, I will maintain that everyone in hell will believe in the Lord Jesus, but none of them will believe on the Lord Jesus. For it is written that "even the Demons believe, and tremble" and "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the father" (If I remember the quotes correctly). And all those who are forever in the Lake of Fire will look upon the Lamb for they shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in His presence (Rev 14:10).

Does that clarify it for you?

BTW, xzins, I did notice your shoddy presentation of "believe in the Lord":

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,....

How do you reconcile verses which say that God hates the wicked to mean that God loves the wicked?

Is there some verse that says that God cannot hate something while at the same time loving it. Did not God love us while we were yet sinners? And while we were yet sinners were we not in open rebellion against God? And while we were in open rebellion against God, did not God hate us?

It seems to me that you are limiting God's sovereignty by stating that it is impossible for God to both love and hate something at the same time. Indeed if God is omnipotent, can he not both love and hate at the same time? Can he not extend his Love toward us while He still views us in a state of sin and thus an abomination to his eyes? Is he not powerful enough to do that? Is his sovereignty limited to only loving or hating?

I don't have to reconcile the problem. The scriptures state that God loved the World (not some little portion of the World) and that he loved us while we were yet sinners.

Anyone who claims that it is impossible to love something and hate it at the same time has never played golf.

Both positions cannot be right. Are you saying that there is not enough room in your theology for Divine Sovereignty, Free Grace and Human Responsibility

No, but you have to be able to explain how they relate, that is the paradox that has to be addressed.

Can man say 'no' to God?

Is God still Sovereign if he does?

There are only two possible views, either man is 'elect' because he believes, or he believes because he is 'elect'

Which side do you fall on or do you see a third way?

Can man say 'no' to God?

The Calvinists seem to think that no man can say yes to God. To answer your question. Yes man can say no to God. (There may be some gentle persuasion in such a case -- just ask Jonah)

Is God still Sovereign if he does?

Is God still Sovereign if man says no to him? Certainly. God can kill him. :-)

There are only two possible views, either man is 'elect' because he believes, or he believes because he is 'elect'
Which side do you fall on or do you see a third way?

Frankly I don't see an inconsistency with straddling the fence. Man is elect because he believes and he believes because he is elect. I see both as correct statements of man's condition. It can also be said that man is not elect because he does not believe and he does not believe because he is not elect. Why do you feel they are inconsistent? Does it say anywhere in scripture that the positions are mutually exclusive?

This passage asks us to search ourselves. It tells us that all the book knowledge and logic will not overcome a self-deception of dual purposes.

And what is your attitude toward others? Are you at one with all- by willing only one thing? Or do you contentiously belong to a party, or is your hand raised against you? Do you wish for all others what you wish for yourself, or do you desire the highest thing of all for you and yours, or do you desire that they should do unto you- by willing one thing? For this will is the eternal order that governs all things, that brings you into union with the dead, and with the men whom you never see, with foreign people whose language and customs you do not know, with all men upon the whole earth, who are related to each by blood and eternally related to the Divine by eternity's task of willing only one thing. Do you wish, that there should be another law for you and yours than for others? Do you wish to find your consolation in something other than that in which each man without exception may and shall find consolation?

I appreciate your comments!

One question for you, what do you do with this: Ex. 8:32 “Pharaoh hardened his heart.” ?

Do you just assume God didn’t let the people go...through Pharaoh?

And isn’t Romans 9 within the context of Paul, a disciple to the Gentiles, communicating to Jews who worked so hard for their faith?

What about Romans 11 addressing this more-the Jews struggling with Gentiles being offered salvation by FAITH?

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