Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
How do you "believe" and not be "born again"? I thought we were saved by faith?
SD
When was the O.M. for St. Joseph the Worker assigned to May Day? Are we expressing our solidarity with the international socialist movement? Or perhaps an alternative? Or just a coincidence?
Answer that, and I'll answer your question.
Jesus, was one person with two natures, that of man and that of God. God took on flesh. God became incarnate in order to sacrifice himself for our sake. The work that Jesus did, in dying on the Cross was an action of the entire person of Jesus, the man and the God. The answer to your question, as I understand it, is both.
Now, when Jesus says that the flesh profits nothing, does He mean His own flesh?
SD
Which means he either created a whole new doctrine (which he did not) or he was relating the truth he'd stated before - believing and confessing was the acceptance and participation in the sacrifice. Your ploy with "spirit and life" is your continuing carnal war with what the scripture says. Tell me, do you physically live by eating words? Of course not. Living on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (matt. 4:4) is a spiritual thing. It relates directly to what Jesus is saying. "My words are spirit and life." Thus are you supposed to eat the words and digest them? Spiritually, yes. Physically, no. IE the flesh profiteth nothing. It's not a physical act he's speaking of. Again - plain evident to the spiritually minded. Dumbfounding to those in the carnal.
Agreed.
or he was relating the truth he'd stated before -
Right.
believing and confessing was the acceptance and participation in the sacrifice.
Wrong. That believing and confessing includes obedience to His commands. And His command, the way He wishes us to participate in his Sacrifice, is through the Eucharist.
Your ploy with "spirit and life" is your continuing carnal war with what the scripture says.
Yawn. Where does "spirit" mean "metaphor" again?
Tell me, do you physically live by eating words? Of course not. Living on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (matt. 4:4) is a spiritual thing. It relates directly to what Jesus is saying. "My words are spirit and life." Thus are you supposed to eat the words and digest them?
No. You are supposed to take Jesus at His word and do what He says. If His Words are spirit and life and He says that His Flesh is real food and I have to eat Him and that this bread is His flesh, by gum, I believe Him. What's so hard about that?
SD
That's it, throw out the Jack Chick label. You're not a liberal are you? Beginning to sound like one.
-Kevin
Insecurity? No, I believe what I believe and have the Scripture to back it up. You and I and Havoc and all can disagree. The difference is that I don't witness to others by using anger and name-calling and mocking the Scriptures, which some folks do.
The Sacrifice of Christ was a Covenant between Him and all mankind. And what do we do in return? We ask much of Christ and some give little back. Why? Some know the answer to this.
Scripture says it plainly. It's not like it's some new revelation, it's been there for 2000 years. It's just that some don't like it when it's quoted publicly where people are actually made aware of it. It offends the carnal and self-seeking. You can't attack the message so you attack the messenger. Are you a fool in this? Do you not know that attacking the messenger is the same as attacking the message and the one who sent it. Step lightly for your own sake.
And as SD has pointed out, there are those filled with the Spirit that reach very different conclusions using Scripture, Church Authority and Tradition. But apparently, when that occurs, SD does not understand because the Spirit has not given SD that understanding. The Holy Spirit is not like some lightswitch that some, Havoc included, turns on and off depending on what he personally agrees with in Scripture.
Yep, you got it. ;^)
-Kevin
I think that's a little uncalled for, highly inappropriate from a Christian and shows no respect for God's chosen. You'd do well to remember you're grafted in. Or in other words, if you're walkin on eggs, don't hop. Just a little spiritual reminder of who it is you're badmouthing there.
BigMack
Cheapskate, at least Dave offered a $20 when he was trying to figure out something Havoc said.......maybe your implying that Hav's thoughts are worth more than SD's thoughts? ;^)
-Kevin
YOU I don't think so.
I know so.
Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
How come you haven't backed it up yet?
You and I and Havoc and all can disagree. The difference is that I don't witness to others by using anger and name-calling and mocking the Scriptures, which some folks do.
You keep telling me I'm angry. I'm fine. But thanx for your concern. Nobody is mocking scripture but you guys. Noah's flood? Fact or fiction? Can you answer?
The whole way through this chapter I do not even think you would say Jesus is talking of physical death, and physical life. I know even you understand that when he is speaking of everlasting life he is speaking of our spiritual life, even though he never says he is speaking of spiritual rather then physical. Why then do you think that when he speaks of eating his flesh it is literal, and then he says you will live forever it is spiritual life?
Becky
The whole way through this chapter I do not even think you would say Jesus is talking of physical death, and physical life. I know even you understand that when he is speaking of everlasting life he is speaking of our spiritual life, even though he never says he is speaking of spiritual rather then physical. Why then do you think that when he speaks of eating his flesh it is literal, and then he says you will live forever it is spiritual life?
Becky
You are posting an anonymous attack
To Repent, You Must:
Give up your AOL account
Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it
Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
Actually post something relevant
Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month
Slam your fingers in a desk drawer repeatedly
In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
Get a life I pity your dog
Learn to post or sod off
Get a clue
All of the above
BigMack
Which means he either created a whole new doctrine (which he did not) or he was relating the truth he'd stated before - believing and confessing was the acceptance and participation in the sacrifice. Your ploy with "spirit and life" is your continuing carnal war with what the scripture says. Tell me, do you physically live by eating words? Of course not. Living on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (matt. 4:4) is a spiritual thing. It relates directly to what Jesus is saying. "My words are spirit and life." Thus are you supposed to eat the words and digest them? Spiritually, yes. Physically, no. IE the flesh profiteth nothing. It's not a physical act he's speaking of. Again - plain evident to the spiritually minded. Dumbfounding to those in the carnal.
Carnal war? No Havoc. Based in Scripture? Yes, and I believe something that you are able to comprehend but willfully refuse to. Nowhere in the NT is "Spirit" used in a symbolic sense, either in referring to the "Holy Spirit" or to anything else designated as Spirit. Christ did not say "My flesh is spirit". He said "My words are spirit and life".
The Spirit gives life, both now and in eternity. And yes, people cannot understand the words of Christ unless they are led in the Spirit.
The same goes for the interpretation of "...the flesh counts for nothing..." meaning that Christ is discounting a literal interpretation of his words in John 6:54-58. Verse 63 is not discussing the flesh and blood of Jesus, but addressing the disbelief of the Jews.
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