Posted on 04/07/2024 5:28:40 PM PDT by grumpa
After years of skeptical study, I became persuaded that Jesus was telling the truth when He said that prophesied “last-things” events would be fulfilled in his generation (Luke 21:22, 32; etc.). This is the preterist view of eschatology. Preterism teaches that most, if not all prophetic events happened with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Books by modern authors such as Francis Gumerlock and Kenneth Gentry affirm that this view has been part of the discussion since the earliest days of Christianity. Indeed, preterists argue that the writers of the New Testament were preterists. It is re-emerging in popularity.
Truth matters. If you are willing to be a Berean Christian (Acts 17:11) and consider a different viewpoint from the one you may now hold, below are some of the questions I could not honestly answer as a futurist, but make perfect sense from the preterist perspective. It’s not just any one of these questions, but rather the cumulative power of the totality of the evidence:
1. Why have many Christians made failed predictions about the end of the world for 2000 years? History
2. If time means nothing to God, why does God constantly use time-restricted statements about the fulfillment of prophecy—such as: must shortly take place, at hand, near, quickly, soon, last times, last hour, last days, about to happen, this generation will not pass?
3. If “no one knows the day or the hour,” why did Jesus frequently insist that his PAROUSIA (Second Coming)—and indeed the fulfillment of all prophecy—would be fulfilled while those living in the first century were still alive (Matthew 10:23; Matthew 16:27-28; Mathew 26:64; Luke 21:22, 28, 32; Hebrews 10:37; Revelation 1:1-3; Revelation 22:6, 12, 20)? Were Jesus and the New Testament writers simply wrong? If they were false prophets, can we trust them on other things?
4. If “soon” (Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-2-) means thousands of years later, does that mean it was going to take Timothy thousands of years to be sent to the Philippians by Paul (Philippians 2:19)? If “soon” means thousands of years later, why do we see it qualified with “must shortly take place” in the same passages?
5. If one day is a 1000 years, and a 1000 years is as a day to the Lord (2 Peter 3), DOES THAT MEAN?—1000 years in Revelation are a single 24-hour day (Revelation 20)? DOES THAT MEAN―that Jesus was in the grave 3000 years?
6. If any of the New Testament was written after AD 70, why is there no mention anywhere in the New Testament IN THE PAST TENSE about the incredible events surrounding the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in that year? If Revelation was written after AD 70, why is the temple mentioned in Revelation 11:1 as still standing? If Revelation was written after AD 70, why does Revelation 17:10 say it was being written during the reign of the sixth king, who was Nero (who reigned from AD 54 to 68)?
7. If the Great Tribulation is still future to us, why did Jesus tell the first century Christians that they could avoid it by fleeing to the mountains (Matthew 24:16; 21)? And why did the Apostle John tell his readers a few years later that THEY were in the tribulation (Revelation 1:9)?
8. If the book of Revelation is for us today, why would John write to the seven churches if it had nothing to do with them? Why would John torture these first-century Christians with impossible and intricate symbolic labyrinths that applied only to people 2,000 years later? Why does Revelation say some 30 times that the events MUST be fulfilled SOON or “about to happen” or “shortly take place?” (Examples: Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6, 12, 20)
9. Why does Hebrews 10:37 say that in a VERY VERY (“very” is there twice in the Greek) LITTLE WHILE Jesus would return and not delay? Were the writer of Hebrews and the other biblical writers that expressed the same thing FALSE PROPHETS?
10. If the biblical “last days” are in the 21st century, why does Peter and the writer of Hebrews both say the last days were in their time (Acts 2:16-17; Hebrews 1:1-2; 1 Peter 1:20)?
11. If the last-days events are still future to us, why does every writer of the 19 mentions of the last days/end times declare that THEY were living in the last days/end times?
12. If the biblical “last days” started in the first century, but continue to this day, why did Peter say the end of all things was at hand, and the judgment was about to begin when he was writing (1 Peter 4:7, 17)? Given Jesus’ condemnation of the Jews of his day, which He said would be in their generation (Matthew 23:29-24:2), isn’t it logical that this is the Great Judgment of which the New Testament speaks?
13. John said it was the “last hour” (1 John 2:18) when he was writing. Does that mean that its fulfillment is now 17 million hours late?
14. If the GREAT COMMISSION is not yet fulfilled, why did Paul say it had been fulfilled when he was writing (Roman 1:8; 10:18; Colossians 1:5-6, 23)?
15. If “heaven and earth” have not yet passed away, does that mean that every jot and tittle of the law is still in effect (Matthew 5:17-18)?
16. If the NEW JERUSALEM is a future physical location, how is it possible that the Hebrews in the first century were already there (Hebrews 12:22)?
17. If Jesus was going to return literally and physically (Acts 1:11), why do we read that his ascension was hidden from view by a cloud? If Jesus is going to return LITERALLY “in like manner” (Acts 1:11), does that also mean that He will return riding a white horse (Revelation 19:11)?
18. If Jesus was to return in a physical, visible appearance to the whole world, why did He tell his first-century disciples that the world would never see him again (John 14:19)?
19. If the King James Version of the Bible really speaks of an end to the physical universe, why is “end of the world” found in the King James Version consistently translated as “end of the AGE” in modern translations and literal translations (like Young’s Literal Translation)?
20. If the prophetic passages were fulfilled once in the first century, and then again thousands of years later, why is there no hint of this by Jesus and the biblical writers?
You are invited to explore more questions here:
Questions for Dispensationalists
You prefer slaves kill your masters?
Well, obviously.. Django.
God’s Word promised no such thing. There was no spectacular event in year 70 where Jesus came in the clouds, with every eye seeing Him as it says in Revelation 1:7. Try reading the Bible for a change.
One question: What was the name of the general of the Beast that tried to go up against the Lamb, as in Revelation 17:14?
Another question: Why does the immorality of today match Jesus’ prophecy of “the days of Noah” and “the days of Lot” so closely?
” . .bro....I’d reevaluate my positions if I were you. You’ve got cronos in your corner.”
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Yes.
#4 -— the Greek words translated, soon or shortly, are not even the same words, and they obviously have different meanings, therefore, the arguments are spurious. Without looking it up, I wouldn’t doubt it’s the same case with several of these examples.
>> The first known prohibition of murder preceded the Jewish god.
There is no thing (or law or thought) that proceeded what you call the “Jewish god”. (Interesting that you capitalize Jewish but not GOD. ;-) )
You doubt the discrepancies as divine clues or do you doubt the Divine?
Accepting the discrepancies as Divine clues and riddles may be a person of faith’s opportunity to ask,seek and knock to obtain wisdom understanding and knowledge of the Divine.
While accepting the discrepancies as uninspired hogwash may be a skeptics opportunity to miss out on wisdom, understanding and knowledge of the Divine.
I guess not really sure which side you sit on by your comment,but there’s two ways to see the discrepancies.
The skeptics can ridicule and mock.
The person of faith can embrace and ask Him why they’re there..
But ask like a child, not as an all knowing adult.
Better results come when in a more teachable state
No charge for the advice
The same reason Ezekiel talks about the Temple as if it were still standing.
There were civilizations who had codified laws, including prohibiting murder millennia before Yahweh was a thing. The capitalization was auto corrected btw and I went with it.
I find no comfort in thinking like a child and find it insulting to suggest.
>> before Yahweh was a thing
There is no such thing as “before YHWH was a thing”, because YHWH and the Spirit and the Word created time.
I understand your point, and did so the first time.
That is a faith based argument and not in line with what we know from historical records.
I am curious why you join these threads to debate with believers.
I don’t sense that you are mocking us. There is something else that brings you here. Can you help me understand? Are you an evangelist for disbelief in the spiritual domain? If so, why?
Shrug. I comment on things I find interesting or silly. This one being the latter.
The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
I pray that you receive a visit from the Holy Spirit, Who is capable of touching your spirit (you do have one) and convincing you of what your peers in the human realm cannot. FRegards and Blessings, FRiend.
Ok. Thanks. Even though I find the tone of your post patronizing.
That's rather patronizing itself. Don't complain when your attitude is reflected back on you.
Perhaps it was a bit patronizing but I find all supernatural beliefs silly and not limited to Christianity.
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I find no comfort in thinking like a child and find it insulting to suggest.
...
Well within your right to be insulted..
But take note, Mathew 18..
At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “
I’m familiar with the passage and concept.
I can’t think of any scenario where one is supposed to accept as fact something that requires you to shut down rational thought and should run away quickly from anyone who suggests you do.
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